That is matter of understanding percentages.
"Standard" system; about 100 litres.
Every bottle tipped in will raise the level by about 1%, so several "unnecessary" bottles will increase the level by several percent.
That is matter of understanding percentages.
"Standard" system; about 100 litres.
Every bottle tipped in will raise the level by about 1%, so several "unnecessary" bottles will increase the level by several percent.
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I understand percentages. I read it as a percentage of the recommended dose, i.e., the correct concentration is 100%, a double dose is 200%.
The Sentinel websire doesn't state which interpretation they have used.
Overdosing most inhibitors is harmful.
N
namsag
Been to loads where pumps have burnt out due to overdozing by customerS especially in the days of gallon containers of MB1.
Foams up and pump cannot shift anything and burn out or cause severe air like symptons.
Foams up and pump cannot shift anything and burn out or cause severe air like symptons.
That is not the concentration; the concentration is the volume of the dose divided by the volume of the system.
By default, the percentage is taken from the reference point (the existing situation), not from the alteration, nor from the end result, unless so specified. This is something not everybody knows, and quite a few people never seem to be able to master it.
As you can only buy sentinel per bottle, it would be rather daft to refer to that in multiples of 100%.
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Here is the link, all you now have to do is show us where it says that your interpretation of the percentage dose is the same as that used by Sentinel and not any other calculation of the percentage;
http://www.sentinel-solutions.net/en/heating/X100/questions
It doesn't specify it, does it?
The usual measurement is not the concentration of the inhibitor solution, but the concentration of the active ingredients in ppm. So if you look at the COSHH for the Sentinel X100 product, ( http://www.sentinel-solutions.net/e...roducts/Rapid-Dose-X100-Safety-Data-Sheet.pdf ) the sodium molybdate forms less than 10% of the solution. Sodium nitrate (which might be the oxygen scavenger, but I don't know) is also less than 10%. Typically you would not carry out one test for the concentration of the inhibitor solution (which is mostly water) as a percentage, but you would carry out several tests for the concentration of the active components (i.e., pH, oxygen scavenger in ppm , and molybdate concentration in ppm).
Having read some of the Sentinel details, some of their statements contradict what (I think) I know about inhibitors and the mental alarm bells are going in a big way, e.g., " Once the correct amount of Sentinel X100 has been added, it remains in the system indefinitely, providing ongoing protection. Depletion only occurs by dilution, e.g. when the system is topped up after removing, emptying and then re-connecting radiators during house decorating.".
Hmmm. Depletion only occurs by dilution? So is it just me that knows of systems that do not leak, were treated with inhibitor and are completely rotten?
There's no point in getting the hump with me Mr. Bengasman because I've pointed out one of the many deficiencies in your GAS training. There's lots of data sheets on the Sentinel website, maybe you should read them.
If it is acceptable practice to tip in a bottle every few years, then why do they make a test kit?
In cases where no deviations are specified, like on the Sentinel website, the default would apply. Another example would be that not every road in a built up area has "30" signs at every corner.
Another standard thing about percentages is that it is measured in percents, not in ppm. As the product does not alter regularly, there is no need to go into extensive measurements of individual components, which would bring the use of the product outside the consumer market. Read the label, count the rads, and Bob is your uncle.
Maybe I am suffering from an early onset of Alzheimer's, but I can't recall determining the dose of sentinel being part of my gas-training. Did you get any instruction/questions about how to use Sentinel in your gas-training?
Sentinel management as of yet have not informed me why they supply testkits, but I can think of 2 reasons to mention them on their website.
1. CYA; anybody thinking of suing for damage to the system despite using the product will now have to show that they used the testkit yearly to check that the levels were sufficient .
2. Turnover.
hello, Onetap, this is a question about CH chemicals, perhaps you know?
I treated my mum's system old open system with X400, fitted a Magnaclean, refilled using X100. the boiler kettles a bit (it is a Profile 100E), and I could not get X200 that day, so I used Kilrock boiler silencer/descaler.
Do you happen to know what is in it, and if it is compatible with X200 if I want to add some later? (who knows, perhaps it contains the same chemicals). I asked Sentinel but they pretend not to know what the Kilrock product is.
I have difficulty in understanding how these new boiler silencers/descalers work, and what happens to the lime they supposedly change
I treated my mum's system old open system with X400, fitted a Magnaclean, refilled using X100. the boiler kettles a bit (it is a Profile 100E), and I could not get X200 that day, so I used Kilrock boiler silencer/descaler.
Do you happen to know what is in it, and if it is compatible with X200 if I want to add some later? (who knows, perhaps it contains the same chemicals). I asked Sentinel but they pretend not to know what the Kilrock product is.
I have difficulty in understanding how these new boiler silencers/descalers work, and what happens to the lime they supposedly change
Oh dear, oh dear.
There's a default? There must be, BG man hath decreed it so. So, what is the default? Where is the default specified?
Is it the concentration of the inhibitor in percent, although you cannot directly measure the concentration of the inhibitor? Or the concentration of the active ingredients in per cent, although the concentration will be of the order of 0.025%?
Get away! Well, I never!
Per centages are in parts per hundred, parts per million are in parts per million.
Have you finished with the patronizing yet or would you like to do some more?
Wrong. It contains a pH buffer which will neutralize a limited amount of acid compounds, i.e., acid flux in a new system or acidic cleaning chemicals. The acidic residues in a new or amended system can overwhelm the pH buffer, making the water acidic and causing galvanic corrosion. The pH will alter as flux resdiues are dissolved or neutralized. You do not know if the inhibitor dose has been adequate unless you initially monitor the pH. The concentration of the oxygen scavenger will also change as oxygen enters the system.
I'm an Engineer, not a gas technician. I did study corroison a little, but it's so long ago I can't remember it. Most of what I know came from work on projects involving water treatment (i.e., softening, RO, de-ionized water, steam boiler, MTHW and LTHW systems).
Maybe you could tell us where you studied water treatment, if it's not part of the BG training scheme? Maybe you could also recognize that gas training does not make you into a "heating engineer", despite what BG tell the gullible public.
Sorry, I don't know. I don't know what is in either of them. Sentinel won't advise you about a competitor's product. You might do best to flush it out and start again using one manufacturer's products.
Kettling is usually caused by limescale deposits inside the boiler. There is a good document about it on the Fernox website. It also usually indicates that there is a leak from the system, since there should only be a negligible amount of dissolved limescale in the water in the system initially. It should not scale up since the water should not be getting constantly replenished, unlike, say a kettle.
If there's an F&E tank, these are often set up incorrectly, with inadequate expansion space. If it's a sealed syste, you should not have to top it up regularly; check the safety valve (pressure relief valve) on the boiler isn't dripping.
thanks
the system is very old. I have adjusted the float in the F&E to give plenty of expansion. The F&E is a round one the diameter of a dustbin (though it is a proper tank) and bigger than the usual rectangular ones. There has been a certain amount of weeping (not leaking) from old rad valves which I am re-ringing or replacing. It has been drained at least a dozen times during repairs and cleaning, so perhaps it is just ordinary limescale with no particular severe cause. It holds about 150 litres and is in London. I don't know how much lime there is in 1800 litres of London water; I should think quite a lot. The water is hard enough to leave scale round bathroom taps if not regularly cleaned.
I notice some of the newer CH inhibitors say they prevent scale building up, so maybe if I can shift the old stuff it will stay reasonably clean
the system is very old. I have adjusted the float in the F&E to give plenty of expansion. The F&E is a round one the diameter of a dustbin (though it is a proper tank) and bigger than the usual rectangular ones. There has been a certain amount of weeping (not leaking) from old rad valves which I am re-ringing or replacing. It has been drained at least a dozen times during repairs and cleaning, so perhaps it is just ordinary limescale with no particular severe cause. It holds about 150 litres and is in London. I don't know how much lime there is in 1800 litres of London water; I should think quite a lot. The water is hard enough to leave scale round bathroom taps if not regularly cleaned.
I notice some of the newer CH inhibitors say they prevent scale building up, so maybe if I can shift the old stuff it will stay reasonably clean
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