Towel rail heating

[Rekusu]

What ho all happy self isolators!!!

When I built the house, I installed a towel rail in the en-suite bathroom, heated by water via the UFH system. It works well in the winter months, but in summer, it is or course off, and the towels remain damp.

The solution is to install an electric dual fuel element which I would run via a timer.

But I am confused; all elements I see on the internet have a three way angle fitting, and the photos show the water flow off-set from the towel rail. My flow (and return) is from the bottom of the rail (see photo) and I cannot see how an element can be fitted without realigning the entire towel rail fitting on the wall.

Is it possible to fit an element into my towel rail without having to refit it and/or re-plumb anything? Basically, I cannot see how this element (as a typical example) will fit my existing rail.

Second question; as the photo, there is a lock-shield valve at each end but those will not stop water within the rail flowing out. As the UFH is below the valve, are these necessary?

My confusing arises because my current rail has a compression fitting to the 15mm pipe and presumably just a washer compressing onto the fitting to the towel rail. But the element photo has no facility for a 15mm compression.

Thanks and toodle pip

 

[lostinthelight]

Imo a towel radiator is for warming dry towels not drying them, thats how mold starts

 

[Rekusu]

I don't mention drying towels (as in freshly washed and wet), only that they remain damp (ish) after use and not really dry the next time they are used.

As sensible as your reply is, it does not answer my question whatsoever.

Unlike many households, this is just to 'dry' damp (used) towels, not provide additional bathroom heat; the UFH does that.

 

[denso13]

Is it possible to fit an element into my towel rail without having to refit it and/or re-plumb anything?

Don't think so, the pipework will need altered.

 

[lostinthelight]

It works well in the winter months, but in summer, it is or course off, and the towels remain damp

Even if damp the moisture has to go somewhere . Fwiw I keep a humidity meter in the bathroom which goes from 48% to 78% during a shower ,extractor on , it returns to the former in around 10mins after. I normally remove the towel after but just to experiment placed it on the rad...the meter went to nearly 80%

 

[Rekusu]

Thanks. Altering the pipework is easier said than done. The rail is on a wall next to the f/f UFH manifold, which is in a cupboard. I was having a look today and I think altering would be a major(ish) challenge.

 

[MeldrewsMate]

Measure the pipe centres. It may be that you can buy a new towel rail that is 100mm wider than the old one. This would allow the existing pipework to join the right hand connection from the side Just as shown in an example photo from Denso13. You can either buy radiator extension pieces to take up the slack, or you can buy an extra long rad valve spigot (from Screwfix?).
Beyond that, and in the absence of any photos showing YOUR system, I can't suggest any more.

 

[Rekusu]

Thanks for your reply.

Think I will have to give up on the idea. It is a stainless steel towel rail as it is plumbed into the UFH pipework so I didn't want any steel fittings. If I recall correctly, I bought the widest one at the time as I didn't want folded towels if possible.

The 15mm T's off the 32mm flow/return for the UFH and it is all within the t/f wall. Thought it may be possible to just reposition the two pipes by a few cms, but although less than 50 cms from the UFH flow/return, most of the 15mm pipework is enclosed within the t/f wall so repositioning them would be quite a major task.

Was trying to see where the pipe runs are with a Smartphone boroscope but all I can see is out of focus insulation!

Think I will have to put this down to a learning experience; next time, install a dual fuel element from the get-go!

Toodle pip and stay safe.

 

[Madrab]

You need to use one of these

Take the compression nut off the fitting, fit the non compression end into the element tapping with some tape and then the other end will fit the compression nut and olive that's already on the pipe, if there's play on the pipe to move into the wall, that'll help with any length offset.

Or if there's no play then take the old nut and olive off, cut the pipe to suit and then fit the new one.

 

[Rekusu]

Madrab,

Thanks you; that looks a real possibility. Imagine I will have to reposition the towel rail slight higher up the wall, but that is the least of the issues. Just a bit of hole filing and redecorating.

 

[Madrab]

Imagine I will have to reposition the towel rail slight higher up the wall

Probably not, you would be removing the tail from the rad as well as removing the valve. Only issue of course is you wouldn't have a means of isolation but that can be worked around if ever having to remove the rad, say isolate via that loop on the manifold.

 

[Rekusu]

You may be correct, but....

If you look a the photo of the existing rail, there is a short, screw-in tail coming out of the rail that fits the valve. Looking at the example image of the element. if the element is screwed directly into the bottom of the rail, I don't think the centre for the 15mmm will align.

The other little issue is that when it was installed, thee was insufficient 15mm protruding from the wall. I had to solder a slightly longer section on with a joiner; you can just see it in the photo. With my luck, I will have to reduce the length of the protruding 15mm and due to the joiner, will not be able to fit your suggested part. But I may be wrong.

Will have to get the parts and see if it is possible.

Again, thanks for the advice and stay safe.

 

[Madrab]

You couldn't screw the element into the valve tail that is fitted into the bottom of the rail. That needs to come out as in @denso13 's pic. You could get a small 3/4" male to female coupler that would fit in it's place and then the element can fit into that to allow the side tapping to drop to the level of the pipe from the wall.

 

[Rekusu]

Another great idea. When covid-19 has died down and I can get a bunch of bits and pieces from Screwfix or wherever, I will have a look. What does not work can then be returned.

My only thought about the coupler, I assume that the element will fit though?

Thanks

 

[Madrab]

I assume that the element will fit though

Not sure, never tried it before, I guess it would be a suck it and see.