Trianco TRG80 - fire keeps dying

[Falladaboy]

The thick power cable from fan goes into something that looks like an old-style black plastic lampholder, anchored horizontally to the drop-down fascia that carries all the electrics; there's a black plastic collar that you can unscrew - just like a lampholder, in fact - but when that is undone, the cable from the fan is still wired into the base of the "lampholder" somehow; there's nothing like a plug-in connector that you can just pull apart - which is what I thought I remembered from before.

Fuel is a mix of shiny and matt/slatey, I would say. And I'm sure you are right about the supplier: that's exactly what they said when I complained about the original 3 tonnes they delivered - they contacted head office in Sheffield, who said they had received no other complaints ... That's why I need to eliminate all other possibilities before going back to them again to report on the replacement 1/2 tonne I am currently trying to use. And it seems to me I have covered everything now. The best they will be able to do is try again with a third lot: but there's no guarantee that will be any better! I don't know if they do quality control of any kind before distributing the stuff?

 

[Terrywookfit]

Can you post a photo of the fan and lead please ?

 

[Falladaboy]

Certainly, but I'll have to leave it until I declinker - I can't drop the fascia panel unless the declinkering arm is pulled forward. The fire has just caught and is building again, so fingers crossed.

 

[Falladaboy]

Hello again: boiler went out in the night again - all hot, fan off, when I went to bed - so I've taken some photos before relighting - 3 attached, I don't really know my way around these forums, not sure how to post photos correctly, so I hope you can see these. I put a square of white paper behind the "lampholder", so that it shows up against the dark grey metal of the fascia.

 

[Terrywookfit]

That is a plug and socket on the fan wire.

 

[Falladaboy]

Well, I pulled as hard as I dare, but it didn't pull apart ....

 

[Falladaboy]

On the other hand, I do seem to recall cleaning the fan in my workshop at some point, away from the boiler; so I'm sure you're right, and it is a plug connector, but it just didn't want to give when I tried to pull it out.

I had to sum up the situation when I e-mailed the coal supplier on Friday, as follows:

"Having had three weeks to monitor what’s going on, I am convinced that this whole batch of anthracite is substandard and of poor calorific value. It takes a long time for the fire to come up to temperature (= when the thermostat switches off the fan), and within hours it has dropped so low that the fan is blowing for hours on end as it tries to get the coal up to temperature again. Without fan assistance, the anthracite cannot sustain a fire in “idling” mode – which it should be able to do, requiring only occasional bursts of fan assistance.

It is also quite clear, from the contents of the boiler ashcan, that this is not normal fuel. I’ve been running these Trianco boilers for 45 years now, and I know what to expect. This present fuel is just not clinkering up as it should, forming hard, heavy clinkers of fused burnt fuel (the fusion being a mark of high temperature combustion). Instead of that, I am getting soft, crumbly lumps of burnt fuel, and a huge amount of whitish, powdery ash and dust. It’s completely different from normal – both the 3 tonnes and the replacement half tonne.

And to be clear: the fuel is the only rogue factor here. The boiler itself has been thoroughly checked out and cleaned where necessary (it wasn’t really necessary at all, as I keep it pretty clean myself anyway). And to quote the MD of Trianco: “It’s just a steel box with a fan.” In other words, there isn’t much that can go wrong with it. I’ve also had the flue swept, just in case. Again, there was nothing wrong with it, according to the sweep, who said it was clear and gave it a clean bill of health. Besides which: these problems only started when I began burning the new fuel from the recent 3-tonne order. Before that, we had no issues with the fire going out like this."

I thought I'd share that with you, just in case it suggests any further clues as to what is going on.

 

[Terrywookfit]

You had already diagnosed the problem in your first post.


Since a new delivery of fuel a few weeks ago, I find the boiler takes HOURS to come up to temperature.

 

[Falladaboy]

Just for future reference: is the cable connector just a straight pull-apart job? Or is it twist and pull, like a bayonet-type lightbulb? If I get that wrong, I'm liable to break the wires. It wouldn't come apart for me with a straight pull, and I was nervous of applying any more force.

Relit the boiler successfully yesterday afternoon, but again, all the pipes and heat leak rads were barely lukewarm this morning. Fan has now been running for at least four hours; if I hold my hand inside the draught flap, above the flueways, I can still feel some warmth coming up (so fire's not completely out); but it isn't picking up the fan draught and burning any brighter. In part, I suspect, because the firebed is so choked with this fine dust and ash (no hard clinkers forming) that the draught can't get through.

 

[Terrywookfit]

The white sleeve on fan wire goes into the (Should go into the) plug.

There is a raised lip to pull on. Wiggle and pull at same time.

 

[Falladaboy]

Thanks for that! I've just discovered that on this occasion there was some kind of blockage at the bottom of the fuel hopper. Something prompted me to stick a poker down through, and fuel immediately slid down through the gap. The fire is now coming up well. This is baffling, since the grains are not obviously oversized - and grains are the only thing going into the hopper.
But let me ask you this: for many years prior to these recent fuel problems, I had the fuel regulator plate set for beans, not grains - even though we have been burning grains for many years. In other words, the gap for the fuel to go down through was wider than was theoretically necessary. I can't remember why I left it/put it on the "beans" setting (and I think we did initially burn beans, decades ago now). But maybe I did it just to be on the safe side, and rule out the risk of blockages (like the one I have just discovered today). So my question is: should I revert to the wider gap - beans setting - even though I am burning grains? And is there any downside to having the wider gap? Obviously it would be stupid to burn beans on the "grains" setting: but what about the other way round? Could that create new problems, or not?

 

[Terrywookfit]

Are there any large pieces that would cause a fuel stoppage ?
The reg plate is designed for the fuel. If set too high it could burn back into the hopper.
If you have used it on the Beans setting (Bottom hole) without problems for years ....Try it !!!

 

[Falladaboy]

Hello again Terrywookfit! My coal supplier has agreed to collect the remaining anthracite for a refund: turns out other customers have had similar issues after all. Some are "managing" - so I'm told - by adjusting their "settings". What settings?? As far as I know, the only adjustable setting on the Trianco, apart from the blast and idle gaps (already checked), is the thermostat dial on the front. Which I've already got cranked up way higher than I normally would.
I'm still having the same problems with the boiler, of course. But I wonder if you have any thoughts as to why the water in our h/w cylinder isn't heating up properly. The boiler thermostat is set high. And when the fan eventually switches off - after several hours of continuous running - the four radiators that seem to serve as heat leaks are hot to the touch - hotter than normal. AND YET: the h/w cylinder is only lukewarm. Why??? The water out of the boiler is obviously hot - otherwise the fan wouldn't cut out. And the water in the pipes to those four rads is obviously hot. The rads are hot. So why is the h/w cylinder not properly hot as well? I just can't work out what is going on here.

 

[Terrywookfit]

Is H/W cyl at highest point of system.
Does the vent pipe get hot above the coil connections?
Try turning rads off that are on gravity circulation.

 

[Falladaboy]

Thanks for your reply. We have a ladder-style towel rail in our shower room, the top half of which is technically above the top of our h/w cylinder. That towel rail, and three other rads, always get noticeably warm/hot by "heat creep" (= gravity circulation?). But that's always been so - and it has always been in addition to - not instead of - having a h/w cylinder containing water that's properly hot. But now these rads are hotter than usual - and the h/w cylinder is (much) less hot than usual: that's the nub of the matter. So the boiler - when it's working - is outputting hot water that is plenty hot enough - just not to the h/w cylinder. But it's hard to see how the poor coal is to blame. Then again, we never had an issue with lukewarm domestic h/w prior to these present coal problems ....

I'm afraid I don't know which is the vent pipe: I'm ignorant when it comes to the maze of pipework in our airing cupboard. And I can't check it now anyway, because - yes, you've guessed it - the boiler went out again this morning so everything is cold.

I did turn off one of the heat leak rads yesterday, yes, but it made no difference to the cylinder.