UPVC Sash Windows - Poor installation

[Wedge66]

Bit of a long one this, but I'd appreciate opinions from those in the know.....

We recently ordered 6 X vertical sliders from a local company, who contract out the installation to some fitters, who have just come and fitted them. They ripped out the existing aluminium double glazing (that I guess dates from the early 80s) and then the box frames. We had a couple of quotes from different companies - some gave us the option of a "box rip out" or not - others (this company included) said that they always ripped out the boxes.

The new frames sit on a plastic profile (about 60mm thick) on top of the brick work, with packers to level them. The fitters have then screwed down through the bottom of the frame with 2X screws to fasten. They've then screwed through the top of the frame into the wooden lintel with another 2X screws. There's no packing between the top of the frame and the lintel, just a gap of around 75mm, so I assume they haven't done the screws up too tight, so as not to distort the frame. The frames have then been fixed in place by expanding foam. There's no fixing in either of the sides.

The windows have then been finished internally with plastic trim and the fitters have made a right pigs ear of it. The trim is marked in numerous areas (nicks, scrapes, cracks etc). There was loads of trim just thrown in their van - it obviously just gets carted around from job to job. There's glue overruns everywhere (I think they used superglue). They've then got carried away with the sealant gun and applied silicon to everything - leaving a really ugly mess internally.

We've told the window company we're not happy and the guy in charge has been round and agreed it's not acceptable, we're just waiting for the fitters response now - meanwhile we're holding the balance due on the windows.

In the meantime I have some concerns and could do with an opinion from those in the know.

1. Method of fixing - is 4 screws and foam sufficient? The window frames are around 900mm wide and 1600mm hight
2. Should packing pieces have replaced the box along the sides and top?
3. If not, should these cavities have been insulated? Two of the rooms have double windows, meaning there's a cavity around 200mm wide and 1600mm high between the two windows, covered by a piece of UPVC cladding.
4. All of the frames bow outwards in the middle - the worst one is around 8mm wider in the middle than it is at the top or bottom. I assume this is a consequence of fixing the sides.

thanks for any help

Steve

 

[pinenot]

OK, first off your contract is with the original company you placed the order with, not their sub contractor and this is the point the sub contractor is responsible to the main contractor, the main contractor is responsible to you - the client.

You've had a bad experience so far, so a little background would be useful.
I assume the boxes were from the original windows...timber sliding sash windows?? with aluminium windows fitted as replacements prior to this, but now ditched???

 

[DHFrames]

Steve

In response to your 4 concerns.....

1. Sliders that size require 3 fixings minimum on the sides, as the springs are located all the way up the sides you can't fix through, theyre only fixable behind the stop caps! We fix little plastic lugs to the sides (ill put a picture up) this enables a good fix. Timber is required on top of the slider, in your case 4x3 not only to cover the gap but this enables you to fix any curtains, if there's no timber you'll just be screwing into the plastic trim which in time won't take the weight of the curtains. We also fit timber to the sides as a lot of our sliders are finished in timber architraves, that then gives us something to fix to.
2. As I've said we use timber, always on the head of the window, not always on the sides, foam all the way round but not too much!!
3. Doesn't harm to put a little insulation in, customers preference though
4. The sides haven't been fixed by the sounds of it, again the only way is to put fixing lugs/cleats to the side, the gap in between the sash and the frame should remain the same all the way up on both sides

Don't pay until you're happy, can you put some pics up?? If it was me I'd have the inside completed in timber, get a price from a chippy and take it off the final payment to the company, £180-£200 approx

 

[DHFrames]

Fixing cleat/lug.... We fix a minimum of 3 of these to the sides!!

 

[DHFrames]

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• DHFrames
• 8 Apr 2013
• 1

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[Wedge66]

OK, first off your contract is with the original company you placed the order with, not their sub contractor and this is the point the sub contractor is responsible to the main contractor, the main contractor is responsible to you - the client.

You've had a bad experience so far, so a little background would be useful.
I assume the boxes were from the original windows...timber sliding sash windows?? with aluminium windows fitted as replacements prior to this, but now ditched???

Thanks for the reply...

I'm going through the window company, they've been round and agreed that the level of finish isn't acceptable. They want the original fitters to come back and make good - we're not so keen on that. I've spent this eveing doing drawings of all the windows and marking up the areas we have issues with, so there'll be no doubt as to what we consider unacceptable. Fortunately we've only paid the 20% deposit - so we've still got some clout.

The house was built around 1910, originally with box sash windows. The sashes were replaced with aluminium frames around 30 years ago, but the boxed were left in. The company we went with rip out the boxes as a matter of course - they say it's safer as they don't know the condition of the boxes until the windows out.

The old windows and boxes are long gone - actually the scrap metal scavengers around our way were there before the windows came out! Presumably by prior arrangement

 

[pinenot]

I know it's not what you want to hear now, but it's a pity the original wooden sliding sash windows were not still in place, they can be upgraded, draft proofed, double glazed and can last for hundreds of years if well maintained That's my opinion anyway ...pinenot

 

[Wedge66]

I know it's not what you want to hear now, but it's a pity the original wooden sliding sash windows were not still in place, they can be upgraded, draft proofed, double glazed and can last for hundreds of years if well maintained That's my opinion anyway ...pinenot

Sadly half the street have had the original sashes replaced with aluminium windows in the dim and distant past. I live in North London in an area that was popular with the Greeks in the late 60s & 70s. We're surrounded by old Greek families that have been here 30-40 years and it seem that at some point having your windows replaced was the in thing. Along with york stone cladding, pebble dash and artex - but there's another story.....

 

[Wedge66]

Thanks for all your replies everyone. I've compiled a list of all the issues we have with the windows and also made drawings of each window and marked the areas of concern. I've sent it to the window company and am waiting for their response - we're expecting the guy in charge of the fitting company at the weekend.