Vaillant VCW GB 221, do I upgrade to a modern boiler

[marctheg]

Hi,

I've recently had an energy survey done on my house and it has come out a very poor 'F' rating. I have all the usual loft and wall insulation together with double glazing and the like, what I have been told is that if I replace my 20 year old Vaillant VCW GB 221 LPG boiler for a modern quality boiler I could raise my rating to a 'C' but in the real world how much more efficient is say a Worcester Bosch combi boiler?

Regards Marc

 

[gaspro1981]

Your boiler is one of the most reliable units to date and given its age obviously not the most efficient, as you have been told there is potential to see saving/gains in the region of 10/15% should you replace it

 

[Agile]

I am not familiar with how those ratings are achieved.

But either loft insulation or cavity wall insulation would each give an improvement in efficiency of more than changing your boiler would!

I almost wonder if something is not right in what you are being told.

Or does your energy assessor do boiler installations as well?

Tony

 

[marctheg]

Hello Tony, It's the official Energy Performance Certificate https://www.gov.uk/buy-sell-your-home/energy-performance-certificates
government regulated so it's obviously an idealistic pile of c**p. Unfortunately there is no way around it, I either fit a new boiler or I stay as an 'E' rated property. I embarked on this road in a bid to have solar panels fitted and take advantage of the feed in tariff but you are not eligible for the tariff unless your property is a minimum of 'C' rated. I could externally or internally insulate my walls but to be honest that would cost twice as much as fitting a new boiler. I like my Vaillant, it works well, it's simple (compared to modern boilers) and thanks to you guys I now have a handle on how it works and how to keep it working. So is it worth changing it for a modern boiler?

Marc

 

[Agile]

Hello Tony,

Unfortunately there is no way around it, I either fit a new boiler or I stay as an 'E' rated property.

Marc

Your first post said "F" and now you say "E".

But why are you having a Cert anyway? Selling ???

I know exactly what these are. But I dont know what goes into the calculation.

We have also heard that many doing them are not as correct or as competent as you might hope for!

Tony

 

[marctheg]

I knew when I posted 'E' someone would spot the mistake, anyway it's an 'F' and I'm doing it so I can qualify for the feed it tariff for solar panels. To get back to the real point of my question though, do I change my trusted old Vaillant VCW GB 221 for a modern boiler? and how much more efficient are modern boilers compared to my old one?

Marc

 

[Agile]

Right, the question you need to ask is what do you have to do to achieve the required higher efficiency rating that is necessary to qualify for the feed in tarriff.

There is only one advisor here that I know of why is qualified as an energy assessor and he rarely visits now.

Probably there is some other forum specialising in advising on energy efficiency ratings that could assist with your needs?

Boilers are all from 60-90% efficint whereas heat losses can range from 3 kW to about 30 kW so insulation is a much higher feature in caclulating the rating.

Tony

 

[marctheg]

The energy performance certificate lists what improvements can be made together with installation costs which are estimated and typical savings per year which are obviously also estimated. Improvements range from internal or external wall insulation with an installation cost of £4000 to £14000 and a yearly saving of £367, wind turbine with a cost of £1500 to £4000 and a yearly saving of £79 to low energy lighting £30 with a yearly saving of £17. I've got all the usual stuff, loft insulation insulation to cavity walls (unfortunately my house is Victorian and the back half of it is solid brick i.e. no insulation) double glazing, radiator valves, room thermostat, low energy light bulbs to 60% of the house etc etc. The only options I've got to lift my house to a 'C' rating is to fit a new boiler with an estimated installation cost of £2200 to £3000 and an annual saving of £250 and to fit a 3.5 kw solar panel system, both of these with just about scrape a'C'.

Marc

 

[Agile]

Well I hope you are right about a new boiler lifting you from F to a C. That seems a big change for only a small improvement in real efficiency.

A new boiler will increase boiler efficiency by about 10-12% depending on how you use it. With weather comp it could be another 3% perhaps. Does WC feature on the EPC ratings?

Of course on LPG you have a limited choice of new boilers but even so an independent would still probably only need to charge about £1600-£1800 to supply and fit a new boiler.

Tony

 

[marctheg]

Thanks Tony, the boiler alone won't get me to a 'C' but if I add in the solar panels as well I will reach my target. What I need to do now is weigh up whether it's worth all the aggro for a saving of 10 -12% or 15% as gaspro1981 said coupled with the cost of the panels (anything from £5500 to £7000) and the long term pay back of the feed in tariff. If I look at the long term it will pay for it's self in 10 or 11 years but, do I want more technology When I left school I went to work in a garage and fixed cars from the 70s and 80s with a socket set and a hammer, I wouldn't where to start now with modern ECUs, do I want my house to be the same?

Marc

 

[Whitespirit66]

If the payback is 10 to 11 years, what is the lifespan of solar panels? The boiler will be at the end of it's life after 11 years, so will it be a worthwhile investment?

 

[marctheg]

Whitespirit66, I hadn't even thought of that, another couple of grand for another boiler. The panels are good for 25 years but the efficiency does drop off over that time, by year 20 they will only be 80% of their original efficiency. I've also been told I will need another inverter (part of the solar panel system that converts DC to AC) at some point in the 25 year period, another £500 or £600.

 

[Agile]

Who do you imagine would honour a warrantee on panels in say 12 years time?

Chinese ambassador?

 

[marctheg]

Good point, it is a risk and lots of people have taken it, I will be honest if my house had been a 'C' I would have had the system fitted but the more I have delved into this the muddier the waters have become. Are solar panels worth it? probably yes in the long run, am I going to buy? hmm, sitting on the fence for the moment.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

EPC, is a load of crap as Agile said, I had to recently engage an EPC surveyor to issue me one as I am being forced to register as a private Landlord under the new scheme introduced by Newham council, that is one of their requirement, Newham council are pain in the back side, i hope to vote them out at the next election!


I asked the EPC guy to give me a good rating and he said don't worry i will do that, so i got a C rating, for a poorly insulated house with a crappy loft insulation layer, and a conventional boiler! (non condensing one)

So the variation between one surveyor and another is as wide as Noa's Arc


Also when you compare the replacement cost of a new boiler over your old valliant sine 221, (coincidentally I have one in my house and is a brilliant boiler, 20 years later it is still running good as gold) and how much are you going to save by installing a new boiler? and how long before you can recover the full cost? at the moment your boiler is paid for and is costing you nothing apart from running costs.