Verdun and The Somme.

[vinn]

As we all know this year is a hundred years since the battles of Verdun and The Somme.

No matter what the various and serious difficulties raised by the Brexit leavers how can anything compare to the slightest possibility of another European civil war.
Because the "Union" lessened the risk - breaking the Union increases the risk.
However slight & far fetched it might seem, a chink of risk has opened.
Putin & the Jihadists of all persuasions will be doing the Hokey Cokey with delight.

Personally, I loathe the big business big administration, corruption and endless petty rules of the EU.
I think that the working class, & the people on the council estates have been betrayed by Labour elitist views on immigration. Labour elites dont live in the pressure zones, dont feel the anger of facing menace and hostility in almost no-go areas - we've not heard the last of this.

But none of these factors, mere irritants in an historical sense, counts for anything against the possibility, however remote, of round three in Europe.

When you listen to the Last Post next Remembrance Sunday perhaps think Verdun The Somme?

Never again.

 

[handyjack]

NATO

 

[gasbanni]

On news night last night there was a panel of four, two historians an equalities writer and a times American correspondent.

The older historian made a lot of sense, in summary he was saying that a lot of ordinary working class people felt disconnected from the poloticians and he believed the vote was done on a cultural basis he was unfortunately interrupted by a chip on her shoulder equalities writer that spoke rubbish.

In essence she felt old people had swayed it and young people were left with the consequences it's only due the the old people she probably isn't speaking german.

What I've found talking to people in their homes follows ......old young rich poor ......

Having talked to people accross the social spectrum while working ,not giving any clue as to my own views when I got them to air their views it came down to one thing .......the level of immigration. I got the definate impression that people don't like to admit this without gentle question for the fear of been labelled a racist !

It's not immigration per se but the level of immigration that's unsettling people.

A local paper had eight young mothers discussion the referendum a couple of weeks ago ........They complained about school places and other things which are the consequences of population increase ....but not one of them cited immigration as the problem .......when it clearly was the root of what they were moaning about !

Re Ww1 Haigh a new assessment by Dennis Winter makes a very good read.

 

[JohnD]

They complained about school places and other things which are the consequences of population increase ....but not one of them cited immigration as the problem .......when it clearly was the root of what they were moaning about !

That's an interesting point.

As you know, immigrants tend to be younger people in work, paying tax and NI, and receiving less back from the state than the average native Brit.

Is it the immigrants who decided to vote in a government which chooses to provide insufficient public services, or is it the British voter?

p.s.
You will not find the truth in here:

 

[empip]

Time to get in amongst them and stir things up - Propose a replacement for the EU - Netherlands, UK, Germany, Austria, Finland. 'NU-GAF'.
Drop the lame ducks and frighten the French !

-0-

 

[JohnD]

Ah, the "Northern League" as a replacement if the EU collapses.

However, I hear that support for referenda in other European countries is dropping, as the Outists are no longer believed.

'No, the economy will be fine, the elite are just lying to you!'
'But look what happened to the UK after they left?'

 

[vinn]

NATO is necessary but its obviously not a political union. Nato could not in any meaningful way restrain a possible, future hard right off the rails Germany - France, Germany & Britain meshed into the European Union could. Even Thatcher eventually acknowledged this.

The box has now been opened, the "unbelievable" has happened, and just look at the calibre of the box openers who will face they know not what in the coming months and years.
The big lies that promised everything, & the now acknowledged impossibility of meeting almost anything because nothing was thought through.

In 1914 nothing was thought through and :

"The lamps of Europe are going out we shall not see them lit again in our lifetime".

Two world wars and half a century later an attempt was made to light them. That is what was rejected.
In 19thC America an anti-immigration political party rejoiced in the name of "The Know Nothings".
We are in process of being governed by a similar group, a group tormented by the idea that someone somewhere in Europe knows what they are doing for the good of all..