Which Shower Pump?

[Wildeman]

I am in need of assistance on which shower pump to purchase.

I have a standard gravity feed water system in my house and I have purchased a new bathroom and en-suite suite which includes in both bathrooms a 300mm square fixed shower head with a 2 way shower valve with diverter which will be connected to a shower handset as well(both the handset and the shower head have a minimum water pressure of 0.1 bar) I wish to install a shower pump to boost the pressure and want the pump to pump both Hot and Cold water supplies.

The space in the airing cupboard is tight to say the least and the bathroom is next to the airing cupboard and the en-suite is the other side of the house with the pipework going up into the loft to feed the shower. I only want to have one pump for both the showers and have been looking at the Grundfos Amazon Twin - STP-3.0 B pump - will this be suitable and how can I guage what pressure I need?

I have also been looking at Salamander pumps but cannot work out which one I require from their range.

Can anyone please advise as I need to order it soon as the plumber is coming to fit the bathroom early October?

Thanks

 

[muggles]

Are any flow rates given for the shower heads / valves, or just a min pressure?

The Grundfos pumps look OK but I've never used one. Stuart Turner Monsoon pumps are the best, and based on the information you've supplied so far I'd recommend their Universal 4.5 bar Twin, their part number 46412. Bella Bathrooms are the place to go - you're unlikely to find them cheaper anywhere else. Note that, with all shower pumps, the quoted pressure is at zero flow and once you actually turn the shower on the pressure drops, so when specifying a pump you need to be aware of the maximum flow rate the pump is capable of delivering

 

[Wildeman]

They are just a minimum pressure (the links to the web page detailed them is below)

http://www.bathstore.com/products/f...fixed-shower-head-with-300-wall-arm-2965.html
http://www.bathstore.com/products/blade-single-function-shower-handset-and-rail-kit-2435.html
http://www.bathstore.com/products/blade-thermostatic-shower-valve-two-way-divertor-70001001190.html

Do I require a negative head pump with the pipework running up into and long the floor of the loft to the en-suite shower even if the cold water tank is sat on 8" batons in the loft? The Grundfos pump selector seemed to indicate a postive head pump was needed!

I understand what you are saying about the pressure but how can I make sure that the pump I get is not too powerful but powerful enough for enjoyable shower - will there be any pressure/flow rate regulation via the valve?

 

[muggles]

The installation instructions for the Blade Thermostatic Shower Valve say "This thermostatic valve is suitable for use with all water systems with an operating pressure of 3.0-5.0 bar and static pressure of 10 bar". I am now certain that the 4.5 bar pump I linked to will be the one that you need, especially with two of them connected (remember - as flow rate increases, pressure decreases and with two showers on the go, flow rate could increase significantly).

I think a negative head will be the safer bet for your proposed setup. By all means try a positive head one if you like, but if it doesn't work you'll have spent the best part of £400 on something you can't send back.

Incidentally, you/your installer should also be checking that the amount of stored water you have is sufficient for the increased demand of pumped showers

 

[Agile]

Rana was very happy with her Salamanda pump.

But most professionals consider them rather cheap and plastic.

Tony

 

[muggles]

Rana was very happy with her Salamanda pump.

But most professionals consider them rather cheap and plastic.

Tony

I've always considered them to be rather expensive and plastic!

 

[Wildeman]

Rana was very happy with her Salamanda pump.

But most professionals consider them rather cheap and plastic.

Tony

I've always considered them to be rather expensive and plastic!

The Salamander ESP100 looks very plastic I must admit compared to the Brass offerings from Grundfos, Stuart Turner and the CT Force Salamander!

So do you think Muggles I would be best going for a universal pump in case I need the negative head with the pump work for the en-suite routing up into the loft over the ceiling and back down again - do not want to waste money if I get the wrong pump?

Also I have no experience with 2 way diverter shower valves so excuse my ignorance if this is a stupid question but will there be a control of the flow rate/pressure or is it a case that it will it be on with full pressure or Off - no variance.

Also you mention 4.5 bar but it had been mentioned to me a while back (not sure by whom) that 3 bar pump would be enough but how can I be sure - it is also worth noting that it would be a rare occassion when both showers would be running together.

The water tank in the loft has a capacity of 344 litres (76 Gallons) which I am hoping will be enough for our needs especially as they will not be run together (well on a rare occassion)

 

[muggles]

I think a negative head pump would be the most sensible option. A negative head pump (now more commonly referred to as a Universal pump) will work in all situations, whereas a positive head pump requires a positive flow of water to activate. If the flow of water is insufficient, it won't turn on.

Your diverter should provide some flow control although the adjustment might be rather coarse. Alternative valves with separate flow and divert controls would provide finer adjustment.

Given the text I previously quoted in the installation instructions, a 3.0 bar pump will definitely not be sufficient. You might be OK with the 4.0 bar but as the 4.5 bar is only an extra £6 it's worth getting that to be sure

Your loft tank will probably last around 10-15 minutes with both showers running simultaneously

 

[Wildeman]

Given the text I previously quoted in the installation instructions, a 3.0 bar pump will definitely not be sufficient. You might be OK with the 4.0 bar but as the 4.5 bar is only an extra £6 it's worth getting that to be sure

Your loft tank will probably last around 10-15 minutes with both showers running simultaneously

Thanks - I will get a universal pump to be on the safe side.

You mention 4 or 4.5 bar but I am struggling to appreciate how powerful that will equate to at the shower head - we currently have a Triton Power Shower in the en-suite - http://secure.tritonshowers.co.uk/power-showers/as2000xt-thermostatic-power-shower.html so trying to guage the new showers to this - can you help in this?

10-15 mins for both showers running together is fine as I say it will be rare that they both are running together!

I appreciate your assistance Muggles but as you can appreciate the pump is expensive and I do not want to get one that is either not powerful enough or too powerful.

 

[muggles]

The new showers will be more powerful than the Triton. Better to get one with plenty of power then reduce the flow at the valve than it is to get one that's not powerful enough and wish you'd bought a better one!