Wiring advice

[tonybhoy]

Hi, guys just looking for some pointers and the easiest way of going about this.

Apologies in advance for the length of this post but my head is hurting with this lot

I've currently got a 46" plasma (approx seven years old) up on the wall which had a Humax Freesat box hooked up via an HDMI cable between them, the free stat box has two LNBs from the satellite dish on the side of the house and we also had a bluray player hooked up to the plasma then from the TV I've the analogue audio outs going to a hi-fi amp so that the amp controls all of the output from the Hi-Fi and the TV.

So far so simple however I'm going to move the position of the TV and the Hi-Fi, which has a FM tuner (I have a proper FM aerial BTW), an AM tuner and an internet tuner plus there is also a network player which I use to stream iTunes from my laptop, to the opposite side of the room approx 4mts away but there's good access under the floor and some of the cables going to the TV at it's current position are passing the new TV position under the floor (sat cables and cat five cable).

The TV is going to be going up on the wall at approx 1200mm to the bottom of the TV and the Hi-Fi is going to be going into a low level unit (approx 450mm high) below the TV in the same position.

So I would like to minimise the amount of cables that I am going to need now so the options are buy a new smart TV but install a wired Lan cable rather than rely on wireless and maybe do away with the satellite dish/cables/humax box cause we can only use these in the winter (leaves and trees) or keep the plasma for the minute and again do away with the satellite cables but install a Lan cable for future proofing for a new smart TV install for sometime in the near future.

I really don't see us using the Humax box or the bluray player again cause we now mainly watch normal TV (no SKY) and use BBC iPlayer for programmes that we've missed or watch movies on Amazon prime or Net-flicks or occasionally iTunes and right now all of that content is accessed via my laptop connected to the TV via a HDMI cable.

So under/behind the TV I'm going to install a 13amp socket for power to the TV, an aerial socket for the Freeview Tuner in the TV and maybe two satellite output sockets for the Freesat tuner in the plasma. and of course the Lan outlet as the plasma does have a network connection but I think it's only for upgrading the firmware in the TV and isn't used for streaming.

I also need to connect the TV's analogue audio outs to the amplifier via cables but are there some sort of sockets available that could be installed at the TV position and another one at the amplifier position with obviously the cables buried in the wall between the two?

Then for the Hi-Fi at low level I'm going to install two double 13amp sockets, an FM outlet for the FM tuner and a Lan outlet for the network player.

The router is in an other room a bit away but access under the floor to this room is easy too.

I would like to have a nice neat solution especially the TV position, at the moment the room is being pulled apart so running cables to the TV position is easy enough so if someone could perhaps suggest an elegant solution for the TV maybe a single socket doing everything and how to install it then that would be really helpful and something similar for the low level Hi-Fi position too although I could just pop the cables up from under the floor and connect to the components and hide the cables for them in the Hi-Fi unit but I would much prefer to have an elegant solution for the Hi-Fi too.

Thanks for reading and BTW I'm happy for anyone in the Glasgow area who wants to price this work to get in touch by PM.

Tony

 

[Lucid]

In-wall cables: The trick is not to tie yourself to anything specific but leave the door open for future changes/upgrades as technology changes.

To that end I personally recommend customers to avoid buying wall plates with fixed sockets, and I'm no fan of the modular type either as without a very deep cut-out they can be fiddly and have a habit of popping out of the frame, especially if there's a bit of leverage from plugs sticking out. A better idea is to bury some box conduit/trunking in to the wall. This will let you change and pull new cables in the future. Finish off the top and bottom end with backboxes appropriate for the type of wall you have (metal for brick/block, plastic for dry lined/stud) and cut out sufficient access to allow the cables with plugs to be passed through to the conduit. To finish off, fit a brush plate in either 1G or 2G size and in a suitable colour combo to match the rest of the switches and sockets in the room.

Apart from the advantages of future-proofing, running cable like this minimises the number of cable joins and that means less chance of poor or troublesome connections, and when/if you change the TV in the future and it has signal connection points in another place then you can pull up or pull back the cables to suit.


New TV: Nearly all but the most basic TVs now have smart features built in, but sadly they're not as good or as well supported as the programs and apps on your laptop. Putting all your eggs on one basket by using the apps on a smart TV is a bit of a risky move as many early adopters are now finding out. Changes in the back-end technology 3,4, 5 years down the line can leave you with a TV that no longer feels so smart.

Once again it's about keeping your options open. By all means install the network cable for the TV, but also look at stand-alone media players. If you have smart-phones or a tablet then look at the casting devices such as Google Chromecast. This uses the phone or tablet as the driver device so it plays what it is sent. More conventional stand-alone players such as Amazon Fire TV and the Android TV boxes have full independent operation. They host built-in and downloadable apps which means a greater choice of services and far fewer of the restrictions placed on the content that you might find with the apps tethered to a TV manufacturer's offering. The options to change and download new apps is an area where TVs really suck. Those manufacturers with an "app market" still only offer a very limited and somewhat anodine choice of "approved" apps. Devices with a more open platform give you far greater choice. There's a really good media player app that's free at the moment, it's called Kodi. This is clever software that's equally adept at accessing streaming services as well as playing content that you might have stored on your own external HDDs, laptops and NAS drives.

Wiring for the new TV: AUDIO OUT. You're going to have to make the move to Optical out for sound from the TVs own tuner and its built-in streaming apps. Analogue stereo out as you have with the plasma has been replaced in most cases by Optical and by the HDMI audio feature called ARC. It wouldn't surprise me if in 5 years that Optical is no longer available either. In the medium term though Optical is still available. Forgive me if this is teaching you to suck eggs, but Optical is a signal using light rather than an electrical signal. It's also digital rather than analogue. To make it compatible with your Hi-Fi system you will need a converter box. The web is full of such devices. The link is just one example.

So, your cabling for the new TV will be Aerial, Ethernet, HDMI, Optical and a power lead. The standard advice was always to keep power leads a good 9"-12" away from any signal cables that they run parallel to. That's still good advice as far as the aerial lead goes. It's less of a problem with HDMI. Optical cable is completely unaffected by electrical interference.


TV height: Unless there's a good reason that you haven't disclosed for the bottom of the TV to be at 1200mm then might I suggest you have another think about that. I know there's a fashion for putting TVs over the fireplace, so a high position is then unavoidable. There's also a lot of folk who see and copy flatscreens mounted high in pubs without realising that it's done like that to be seen over the heads of people sat in front. That kind of mounting isn't really necessary at home. The viewing distances are much shorter than in pubs and the seating height is lower too which makes the eye line lower and thus makes the viewing angle much greater. In short, a telly half way up the wall in the average living room feels awkward to view and looks a bit dumb not to mention that passers-by can easily see what you're watching particularly in summer. Obviously the latter doesn't apply if you living in a high-rise or somewhere remote. The point is that for TV viewing it feels most comfortable when we're looking at the mid-line or third-line of the screen when seated. The average eye-line level for a seated adult is somewhere around 40"-44" from floor level. This is the equivalent of roughly 100cm - 110cm. Your eyes should be level with the centre of the the screen's height or at most on third up from the bottom.

 

[tonybhoy]

Thanks Lucid, just what I was after and such a simple solution too, think I was over complicating things but you do when it's not your occupation.

Regarding the height of the TV I think that your spot on, I marked the position on the wall of where the TV is going to be installed and it is way too high relative to the existing position which is about 300mm lower to the bottom of the TV so what I'm going to do before making a final decision is to mount the TV at the same height at the new position and take it from there but I can see from the couch sitting position that my proposed height will give everyone a sore neck

Also, the digital audio thing is something that I've used previously with just a cheap Maplins dac taking the optical cable from the TV>dac>analogue outs>amplifier so that also makes things really simple.

One other thing regarding the 'smart TV' options is that we are going to take your advice in fact my wife really likes the existing TV which is a Panasonic 46" Plasma with a great picture so thanks for that advice too, much appreciated. My laptop is a brand new Macbook pro retina 15" and is superb for watching stuff on the TV and it's really just a case of hooking up an HDMI cable temporarily to both the Macbook and the TV whenever we do that but I might buy something like Apple TV or one of your suggestions and go wireless.

Kind regards

Tony

 

[Akelec]

Hi,

I know it was mentioned earlier about not using modular plates, but something like this: http://m.screwfix.com/p/british-general-13a-2-x-2-gang-combination-plate-brushed-steel/3241f

Could be useful if installed correctly, (mayby with some conduit to future proof for new cables)

You can get hdmi, rj45, sat, fm/am, usb mondules, + quite a wide range of others, obviously there are some factors that affect this being installed, ie wall depth etc. However if done corrsctly can be the dogs danglies.

Hooe this helps too

 

[Sam Gangee]

Humax Freestat

That would be "Freesat" because "sat" is short for "satellite" and "stat" is short for statistics".
Also "LNI" should be "LNB" (Low Noise Blockdownconverter) and "ariel" (washing powder etc.) should be "aerial".
I'm not nit-picking; spelling matters when you are searching for something.

As regards wall plates, I agree with Lucid. They are fiddly to connect and the connections can break or work loose (based on my personal experience).
But if you really want to use them, connect a foot of WF65-1 (thin coaxial cable) to the end of each length of WF100 coaxial cable. The thinner cable is more flexible, making it easier to fit and less likely to put pressure on the module. Yes I KNOW it means yet another joint to affect the signal but a threaded coupler with properly-fitted 'F' plugs on the cable will minimise signal reflections.

 

[Akelec]

Sam

Have you tried the pushfit coax/sat points. A few manufacturers do them now. I have had no problems with them. I do agree they screw type are very fiddly. And i completly agree that the modular plates can be awkward. I was just offering an alternate solution.

Cheers

 

[Akelec]

Image

• Akelec
• 17 Oct 2015

Coax

This one is legrande. Im pretty sure click and others do them, and in modulats too. That can make them easier

 

[Sam Gangee]

I've used push-fit plates but not the one you've photographed.

 

[SimonH2]

There's also a lot of folk who see and copy flatscreens mounted high in pubs without realising that it's done like that to be seen over the heads of people sat in front.

Not just that, it also means people can see the TV over the rim of the beer glass. So it means none of the "drink or watch" conundrum that might slow down the sales of beer !

 

[tonybhoy]

Hi Guys, just a small update, I lowered the height of the TV and used all of the suggestions here including the trunking and the brush plates, I'll post a photo later on but the room is now finished I just have to fit the TV onto the wall bracket and also fit the face plates but it's all looking great and I tested everything before the plasterer started plastering the room.

Thanks

Tony

 

[tonybhoy]

Finally completed guys, couple of photos for anyone interested.

The Ikea unit the TT is on is just temporary until we can source something more in keeping with the room.

Tony

 

[Lucid]

Nice. Is that a Thorens deck? Also, how do you find the Dalis sitting direct on the cupboard like that?

 

[tonybhoy]

Nice. Is that a Thorens deck? Also, how do you find the Dalis sitting direct on the cupboard like that?

Hi Lucid, no it's a Dual 1219, just bought it recently from a guy in Germany who refurbs them, the entire deck is minty and the plinth is a new design for these decks.

http://www.gs-audio.com/startseite/dual/1219-shure-101-selbstbauzarge-550/

The Dalis are okay on the cupboard but the entire room is all hard surfaces now so I'll maybe need to try to tame them once we have the new unit for the TT, they're surprisingly good speakers for the money, previously had a pair of Harbeths P3ERS which are wonderful speakers but are about 8 times the price of the Dalis.

 

[Lucid]

Ah, thanks. I'm more familiar with the 80's stalwart, the Dual CS505.

I was wondering how the music sounds in what looks like quite an acoustically bright room. As you say, a bit of 'taming' would help. It would make quite a bit of difference to intelligibility to cut down on the reverb' time in the room. I know the Dali speakers quite well. I've used Ikons and the in-wall versions in a few installs. Zensors been on my radar for a couple of years now as an alternative to Monitor Audio. Once you get the room acoustics sorted, and if you plan to keep the speakers on the cabinet rather than on stands, try a little experiment in isolating them. Take some small nuts, M3 size would do, and put three under each speaker in a triangular layout; one each near the front corners and one in the middle of the rear edge. Have a listen. You should notice bass notes stop and start better. The top end might be a little more revealing too. It's a cheap experiment. Screwfix sell the nuts in stainless steel for £1.99 per bag of 100.

Good luck