Well that worked out well!

[Dextraneous]

Nice to see lifesagasman back on the boards

Back to topic - we talk about the warring factions in the middle east and how they just can't contain themselves. This is true but, hand on heart, has anyone compared this with "our" own tendencies to fight in conflicts which may or may not really have anything to to with "us"?

One cannot but suspect that we just might be an innately aggressive species. Indeed, the typical "Daily Mail" stance is indicative of our ireful sense of injustice - in which case ... quid pro quo?

 

[LanceCorpralJones]

However it needed pointing out to the Israeli apologists that there are fanatics on both sides

A point you've conveniently either forgot or fail to acknowledge, elly. You repeatedly fail to condemn Hamas for their part in all of this. (well you sort of pay lip service to the fact) but the main jist of your posts is about Israeli attacks (in response to the rocket attacks in the first place) Others have shown (or at least tried to show) that Hamas has plenty of places, free from civilians, from which to launch their rocket attacks.. Something that for the moment seems completely lost on you.

If my memoy serves me right, over all the years of this claim doing the rounds, there has been only one independent, verified account of rockets being stored in civilian building, the most recent one of rockets stored in the UN school.
There never has been any independent, verified account of rockets being launched from civilian areas, or buildings.
In the recent interview with the Hamas president, he was careful to make the distinction.
It's just been a very useful bit of propoganda, started by the Americans, I think, and adopted by Israel.
It's certainly a useful way of explaining away civilian casualties.

 

[LanceCorpralJones]

Who's them when there at home?

 

[jockscott]

Back to topic - we talk about the warring factions in the middle east and how they just can't contain themselves. This is true but, hand on heart, has anyone compared this with "our" own tendencies to fight in conflicts which may or may not really have anything to to with "us"?

Dunno Dex. In recent conflicts, it's our government who decides to "send in the troops" Look at the anti war sentiment up and down the country. I can't agree that it's "our tendency" to get involved. If anything it's our "governments tendency" to believe that we are part of the world's police force.

 

[LastMagicBean]

Is this "insistence by God to make war" in the Quran, or in the "hadith", or in later variant interpetations of the Quran?

Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

 

[Norcon]

Israel knows that any concessions given to hamas just means more bombs and rockets so a perpetual state of war is preferable now.

 

[AronSearle]

Extracts from the Hamas charter



[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

Israel, by virtue of its being Jewish and of having a Jewish population, defies Islam and the Muslims.

There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad.

There can be no peace whilst hamas is in charge, whether this justifies bombing them is another argument, but there can be no peace whilst they exist.

 

[ellal]

However it needed pointing out to the Israeli apologists that there are fanatics on both sides

A point you've conveniently either forgot or fail to acknowledge, elly. You repeatedly fail to condemn Hamas for their part in all of this.

How thick are you?

However I condemn the violence from wherever it comes

 

[collisioni]

of course you do. Your religion promotes war. Did you not read the book, or you only practice the parts that suit.

 

[jockscott]

A point you've conveniently either forgot or fail to acknowledge, elly. You repeatedly fail to condemn Hamas for their part in all of this.

How thick are you?

However I condemn the violence from wherever it comes

Ahh master of the selective quote there, You conveniently left out

(well you sort of pay lip service to the fact)

I've yet to actually see in your own words a condemnation of the Hamas rocket launches. Will we ever see you condemn these?/ (I think not)
As I previously stated, the main jist of your posts, is to condemn Israeli action.

 

[securespark]

Blame the UN's decision to create the state of Israel where and when it did.

Not that I am excusing their behaviour.

 

[LanceCorpralJones]

Is this "insistence by God to make war" in the Quran, or in the "hadith", or in later variant interpetations of the Quran?

Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

That is like quoting a sentence from the bible and suggesting that the whole faith is based on that sentence.
The verse that you quoted is very often quoted by critics of Islam, to show that Islam promotes violence, bloodshed and brutality.
Critics of Islam actually quote this verse out of context. In order to understand the context, we need to read from verse 1 of this surah. It says that there was a peace treaty between the Muslims and the Mushriks (pagans) of Makkah. This treaty was violated by the Mushriks of Makkah. A period of four months was given to the Mushriks of Makkah to make amends.
Otherwise war would be declared against them. Verse 5 says: “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is oft-forgiving, Most merciful.” [Al-Quran 9:5]
Chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer to the allegation that Islam promotes violence, brutality and bloodshed. It says: “If one amongst the pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge.” [Al-Quran 9:6]

The Quran not only says that a Mushrik seeking asylum during the battle should be granted refuge, but also that he should be escorted to a secure place. In the present international scenario, even a kind, peace-loving army General, during a battle, may let the enemy soldiers go free, if they want peace. But which army General will ever tell his soldiers, that if the enemy soldiers want peace during a battle, don’t just let them go free, but also escort them to a place of security?
This is exactly what Allah says in the Quran to promote peace in the world.
http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/quran_95_commentary/

 

[jockscott]

Jonesy "Don't panic, don't panic." The religious text you quote only has one message there. Forgive them, just as long as they convert to Islam.

but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them

Seems to me if they dunna convert then they're brown bread.

 

[collisioni]

Lol, yes spread peace after you've rubbed out the opposition. words are just that, interpretation is all . These middle age dwellers are fulfilling their cause for a better world. Monsters all

 

[mark vincent]

However it needed pointing out to the Israeli apologists that there are fanatics on both sides

A point you've conveniently either forgot or fail to acknowledge, elly. You repeatedly fail to condemn Hamas for their part in all of this. (well you sort of pay lip service to the fact) but the main jist of your posts is about Israeli attacks (in response to the rocket attacks in the first place) Others have shown (or at least tried to show) that Hamas has plenty of places, free from civilians, from which to launch their rocket attacks.. Something that for the moment seems completely lost on you.

The Israelis just don't just target launching sites they target the homes of alleged Hamas operatives in civilian areas.