[Ahem]
[/Ahem]
And without a solid foundation before you start you will struggle - you need to be pretty clued up in the first place. No way will it teach you from scratch.
DIY rewiring and Building control
- Thread starter Yanni
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It would cost one million pounds.
Put £65 into perspective.
Half the price of a decent CU?
One quarter the price of a new electric shower?
Two average meals for two at your bog-standard High Street curry house?
Less than the price of getting an electrician to come and do virtually anything?
One quarter (if you are lucky - probably less) of what your test equipment will cost?
As for not understanding it, maybe that should worry you...
Intellectual property theft is frequently facilitated by eBayAlthough given my previous tip about downloading from the BS website, I'm hoping that I'll be able to replace my 16th book with a PDF pretty soon
(or I may just have to resort to googling for it lol)
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Lies, damn lies and statistics, eh?
"According to government figures, around 30 people die each year and around 4,000 are seriously injured in accidents involving unsafe electrical installations in the home. "
That's almost certainly untrue. The official figures used in the Part P consultation document and RIA were, for the years 1990-1998, an average of 4.5 fatalities per year in E&W due to electric shock, and 5.9 from electrically related fires, but over 80% of the latter were fires involving fixed appliances, so may well include misuse of heating or cooking appliances. Non-fatal injuries were 756.
Have deaths really trebled since then? Injuries up by a factor of 5? Not much of a result for Part P if they have, is it......
Would this be because they are not competent?
Re- Read my post. I didn’t suggest that BS7671 defined competency; Only that it tells us we should Inspect & Test!
The address I offered as the BR helpline address is an email address I was given in a reply to my emailing [email protected], after reading an amended ODPM 2004 circular signed by Anne Hemmings. I had emailed with a Part P query. The reply I received although 4 weeks later, was very informative. They advised that if I had any further queries regarding the Building Regulations and in particular Part P, I should direct my queries to the address I posted! The circular is on the communities.gov.uk/planning website!
Approved Document Part P as ammened April 2006! The Approved Documents give guidence on what the Building Regulations require in order for you to comply.
If you do not comply with the building regulations you are open to prosecution! What part of that do you not understand?
It clearly states on page 7, under General Guidance, Section 0, 0.1”In the secretary of state’s view, the requirements will be met by adherence to the “Fundamental Principals” for achieving safety given in BS7671:2001 Chapter 13. To achieve these requirements the installation must be… So on and so forth…. Away of satisfying the fundamental principals would be to follow… The technical rules followed in the body of BS7671:2001. as amended.” So on and so forth... In Fact, if you read it through you will see many references to BS7671 as amended.”
Don't be silly. The On Site Guide is not a DIY hand book!
In fact, the Electricians Guide you mention is probably a more practical book for the DIYer to understand. Why? Becuase this book explians in more detail what the Building Regulations are and offers guidence on how to interpret the On Site Guide!
Put £65 into perspective.
As for not understanding it, maybe that should worry you...
Ban-all-sheds, I could go on but I don’t want this to turn into a slagging match. Suffice to say, advising a DIYer to purchase a £65.00 book that requires years of learning to understand is not very good advise! In fact, to suggest that a DIYer is a (lesser Mortal) if they do not understand it is totally absurd!
Even you should know that Fully Qualified Time Served Electricians who have been in the industry for many years have difficulty in interpreting many of the wiring regulations!
I have no doubt that many members reading this thread are totally confused after some of the comments that have been made.
If I have contributed to their confusion, I apologise.
V
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BAS, what on earth are you blithering on about now?
WHats all this about the EAWR (go on I give in - whats that mean???) and the HASAW act ?
Doing DIY we shoould all be doing it safely, but Iseem to recall that the HASAW act does not apply at home because its not "at work" ??
And whats all this tosh about installing equipment not upto the job, were only talking basic domestic stuff like double gang sockets and plugging a hairdryer into it. if the hairdryer is not safe then thats nowt to do with any acts that affect me, I take it back to Argos & shout at someone
WHats all this about the EAWR (go on I give in - whats that mean???) and the HASAW act ?
Doing DIY we shoould all be doing it safely, but Iseem to recall that the HASAW act does not apply at home because its not "at work" ??
And whats all this tosh about installing equipment not upto the job, were only talking basic domestic stuff like double gang sockets and plugging a hairdryer into it. if the hairdryer is not safe then thats nowt to do with any acts that affect me, I take it back to Argos & shout at someone
H
hotrod
Veglen, you appear to implying that by not adhering to BS7671 you are not complying with the Building Regs, ergo The Building Act 1984, which as you know are statutory requirements, and therefore "open to prosecution". This is a common misconception and untrue. You do not have to adhere to BS7671 to comply with the Building Regs.
All Approved Documents have a section entitled "Use of guidance" (this can be found on P3 in Approved Doc P). It states;
"Approved Documents are intended to provide guidance for some of the more common building situations. However, there may well be alternative ways of achieving compliance with the requirements. Thus there is no obligation to adopt any particular solution contained in an Approved Document if you prefer to meet the relevant requirement in some other way."
Consequentley, there is no statutory obligation to comply with BS7671 in order to achieve compliance with Approved Document P as far as the Building Regulations are concerned.
If you are a member of a Part P provider scheme, yes, it's probably a requirement of your membership to work to BS7671.
If you are not a member of a Part P provider scheme, yes, it's probably a good idea to work to BS7671.
But, I think the point BAS is making is that it's not a 'statutory obligation'.
This discussion about Part P, BS5751 , the OSG, and the Guidance Documents, is absolutely rivetting.
It's also very important, why has this never been covered on the forum before?
Shirley someone should add something to the Wiki about it all?
It's also very important, why has this never been covered on the forum before?
Shirley someone should add something to the Wiki about it all?
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I'm really enjoying reading this too.
And I'm most pleased that it has not fallen into the type of argument that happens in other thread, hopefully it will continue that way.
in a similar vein to the question of needing a competent person to sign the job off etc, does anyone know of anyone who has been prosecuted for not using one when doing a DIY job?
And I'm most pleased that it has not fallen into the type of argument that happens in other thread, hopefully it will continue that way.
in a similar vein to the question of needing a competent person to sign the job off etc, does anyone know of anyone who has been prosecuted for not using one when doing a DIY job?
Possibly - I can see how DIYers could be competent to install to BS 7671, but not test.
Or how they could be competent, but not have test equipment.
No, but your reply was in response to (partly) "Where is the requirement that any test "must" be done only by a competent person?" - I was only pointing out that there's no definition of competence.
Bizarre.
I hope that a non-governmental commercial organisation is properly staffed to offer advice on legislative matters, and can be held accountable for any advice they give. And I hope you can see why I thought it odd that they should be touted as the BR helpline..
Let's try this again, and hope you don't regard it as a slagging match.
You said "Building regulations direct you to the BS7671 for direction.".
I asked you to show us where, and you then went on about Approved Document P.
Approved Document P is NOT the Building Regulations, nor is it part of the Building Regulations.
So I'll ask you again - where do the Building Regulations refer to BS 7671?
None of it.
What part of "The Building Regulations absolutely do not make the BS7671 requirements on testing part of the law" do you not understand?
I'm aware of that.
What I'm not aware of, and what you have so far been unable to show, is where the ACTUAL LAW makes complying with BS 7671 a requirement. Or where, apart from the definition of bathroom zones the ACTUAL LAW even refers to BS 7671.
Mattylad was talking about the regulations. I'm not denying the value of other guides, but the OSG is an IET publication, and the others are not
I disagree that it's absurd, as it contains useful information, but I have never suggested that people make it their only source of information - I think it's one of the useful books they should consider.
What I wrote was in response to mattylad's observation about the cost, and I think it is reasonable to try and put £65 into perspective.
And to use your words "Re- Read my post" - it wasn't I that used the term "lesser mortals". If you don't like that then please take it up with the person who said it.
I can't be held responsible for other people's shortcomings.
Electricity At Work Regulations
Nor do the EAWR, as I pointed out to pompeygit
My reply was purely to do with spark123's belief that there is something special about those regulations, and the Act under which they are made, which reverses the usual presumption of innocence in English law.And whats all this tosh about installing equipment not upto the job, were only talking basic domestic stuff like double gang sockets and plugging a hairdryer into it. if the hairdryer is not safe then thats nowt to do with any acts that affect me, I take it back to Argos & shout at someone
You don't have to use one.
In fact, you can't use one to sign work off - either the work is done by the competent person, and he signs it off because he did it, or it is not.
And I'm not aware of any DIYers who have been prosecuted for failing to notify. But that doesn't mean there aren't any.
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