Baxi Duotec 40 HE - Tearing my hair out

[Eric Walton]

By posting here you are deemed to have read the forum rules which clearly say " no gas advice ".

Bearing in mind that many Registered Gas Installers do not have the knowledge of skills to diagnose and repair boilers would it not be acceptable to give some advice that a boilers owner can pass on to the RGI who comes claiming to be able to repair boilers. If nothing else it would at least allow the boiler's owner to judge whether the RGI was competent to diagnose and repair faults in the boiler.

It does seem necessary for the gas industry to create another qualification RGR Resistered Gas Repairers so that customers are able to select from a lsit of people who can repair rather than just install.

Blimey. This makes complete sense!
That should hopefully put an end to comments like ' I cant guarantee that will fix it but its worth a punt' for an 80 quid part plus fitting. Then didnt fix it.


No doubt it would also evict a few Rgi's on here from their ivory towers.

 

[DaveHerns]

You'd then have the owners DIY'ing it . If the RGI needs help, there's always the CC surely

 

[Eric Walton]

You'd then have the owners DIY'ing it . If the RGI needs help, there's always the CC surely

Only idiots would mess about with gas stuff that hey are not trained to do - sadly some of them blow themselves and their families and neighbours to kingdom come.
However the idea that an enhanced qualification and experience in actually correctly diagnosing breakdowns is a great one. But that would have already cost one plumber about £150 quid from charging for work that neither fixed the problem, but caused another one.
I wonder how many gas safe plumbers would vote for the enhanced experience and certification to FIX boilers.
Not many is my guess.

 

[Eric Walton]

I will see if it's fixed when I get home and then based on three Gas safe folks looking at it, and hopefully one will have actually fixed it, I would summise 33% of RGI's know how to fix these things. Either that , or as a previous comment above, folks charge for this advice.

They also charge for " fixing " stuff that doesn't actually fix it, yet laugh and patronize genuine folks asking for assistance, after supposed gas professionals haven't a clue.

You seem to have "chosen" people who are not very capable of fixing boilers.

Regardless, you should not have to pay for parts which don't fix the fault. Or for that matter for a faulty diagnosis.

In spite of your experiences most engineers who specialise in repairing boilers [ rather than just fitting new ones ] are mostly pretty good at that.

Furthermore many are also honest and would never charge you for parts not required.

Supposing you posted the one who did not fix it and has stopped answering his phone on one of the complaints sites?

Tony

I like the "chosen" comment.
In my ignorance I just thought that a engineer sent out by a national emergency boiler breakdown company, and a local independent in business trading for years would be perfectly able to do what they profess to specialise in.

Until now I didn't realise there was an invisible 2 tier gas safe system for boiler fitters.
Installation capable and repair capable. An expensive lesson learned for the future.

We are now on day 6 without hot water and heating, it isn't so bad. The baby has become accustomed to the cold and sleeps longer, the blue tinge will fade over time I'm sure. Cold water body washes are invigorating I tell the other kids.
Not to worry, in a few days when we have spent the holiday money on hoping plumber 3 has fixed the original and damaged parts we we can all look forward to a few days out in scabby Cleethorpes in August.

Life is looking Rosie, much like the missus' ruddy cheeks.

 

[bernardgreen]

You'd then have the owners DIY'ing it .

Which while it is not illegal it certainly is not to be encouraged as any gas work by a person without the necessary knowledge skills and competence will create unseen hazards and dangers to life and property.

If the RGI needs help, there's always the CC surely

How many of the hundreds of RGI technicians and qualified boiler repair technicians in the UK are active on this forum ? And even if they were on this forum they should as qualified technicians have access to the manufacturer's documentation for fault diagnosis and / or repair of the boiler.

A few technicians with an RGI card who go to repair a boiler may have little if any knowledge about that specific type of boiler.

Just because a person in the CC is an RGI it does not mean the information they provide to others will always be accurate. Unless they can support it with extracts from the manufacturer's documentation or other traceable sources the information should be considered as possibly incorrect.

 

[Agile]

My old boss used to class irrelevant ramblings as "thoughts for the day" !

 

[Eric Walton]

My old boss used to class irrelevant ramblings as "thoughts for the day" !

Now there's a thought...

 

[DP]

When you reset it does it fire and lock out or go straight to lock out

It tries to fire up 5 times without success, lots of fumes outside and clicking inside the boiler then E133.
I just turned it off at the wall.
My missus was told the bent part was causing the loud bang, the lady engineer thinks this was bent during the servicing, but not linked to the original E133 fault.

No way anyone bent that part. This is what a service prevents, checking items that could cause future issues

 

[Eric Walton]

When you reset it does it fire and lock out or go straight to lock out

It tries to fire up 5 times without success, lots of fumes outside and clicking inside the boiler then E133.
I just turned it off at the wall.
My missus was told the bent part was causing the loud bang, the lady engineer thinks this was bent during the servicing, but not linked to the original E133 fault.

No way anyone bent that part. This is what a service prevents, checking items that could cause future issues

So DP, are you telling me that plumber number 3 came to the house, removed the broken part from the boiler in front of my missus and showed her it and then lied that she believed it was caused by plumber 2.
I will upload a pic of the small piece clearly bent and snapped, and quite possibly in that order.

That seems to go against the comment above that RGI's are honest.
Plumber 1 - had no clue
Plumber 2 - charged me for an incomplete service , fitted unnecessary parts and broke something inside the main heat exchanger.
Plumber 3 - has been accused of lying to my missus with her diagnosis of the bent and broken piece.

Christ, it's not looking good for the Gas Safe profession is it?

Maybe if it breaks down again ( assuming it's ever fixed ) I should put a bale of hay and a bucket of water outside for the RGI's horse.

 

[AGAS]

would like to know how they managed to bend it

 

[Aquaheat]

I would say that Plumber 3 has tried to adjust it with pliers or such and has snapped it in the process.

Jon

 

[Eric Walton]

I would say that Plumber 3 has tried to adjust it with pliers or such and has snapped it in the process.

Jon

So two plumbers come and have a dig about and fail to fix it, number 2 fails to return my calls or message that it still isn't working and yet miss plumber number 3 ( who is coming tonight at 6pm ) gets the blame.
Blimey, it's a dog eat dog *installer ( note the installer and not repairer ) world in isn't it

 

[Aquaheat]

I would say that Plumber 3 has tried to adjust it with pliers or such and has snapped it in the process.

Jon

So two plumbers come and have a dig about and fail to fix it, number 2 fails to return my calls or message that it still isn't working and yet miss plumber number 3 ( who is coming tonight at 6pm ) gets the blame.
Blimey, it's a dog eat dog *installer ( note the installer and not repairer ) world in isn't it

Can't really assess blame as no one has seen your appliance. From experience though just carrying out a service will not bend those. It would have to be forcibly snapped. If plumber 2 had snapped it during a service I would have expected him to have mentioned that it was broken a replaced it.

It's not really dog eat dog as the majority of us know what we are doing and we actually speak to each other and help each other out. What we don't have time for are those that bring the industry down or perform sub standard work.

As for your view on installers/repair guys. Yes there are installers that haven't a clue how the inner workings of a boiler work and the same can be said for service and repair guys that wouldn't be able to throw a boiler on the wall in a timely fashion. We don't have to have "qualifications" that let us either install or repair these come with experience and training. Most of the guys you will get advice from on here are very timed served and we perform both of these to an exceptional standard as we put the time in to not only our customers but to our own personal development by educating ourselves.

The problem then comes from the customer point of view who is then not willing to pay for this experience and gets the cheapest person in to do a job which they may not be able to complete.

Maybe we should be referred to as RGEs from now on then (especially since I got given the engineer accolade from bernard green!)

Jon

 

[Eric Walton]

I would say that Plumber 3 has tried to adjust it with pliers or such and has snapped it in the process.

Jon

So two plumbers come and have a dig about and fail to fix it, number 2 fails to return my calls or message that it still isn't working and yet miss plumber number 3 ( who is coming tonight at 6pm ) gets the blame.
Blimey, it's a dog eat dog *installer ( note the installer and not repairer ) world in isn't it

Can't really assess blame as no one has seen your appliance. From experience though just carrying out a service will not bend those. It would have to be forcibly snapped. If plumber 2 had snapped it during a service I would have expected him to have mentioned that it was broken a replaced it.

It's not really dog eat dog as the majority of us know what we are doing and we actually speak to each other and help each other out. What we don't have time for are those that bring the industry down or perform sub standard work.

As for your view on installers/repair guys. Yes there are installers that haven't a clue how the inner workings of a boiler work and the same can be said for service and repair guys that wouldn't be able to throw a boiler on the wall in a timely fashion. We don't have to have "qualifications" that let us either install or repair these come with experience and training. Most of the guys you will get advice from on here are very timed served and we perform both of these to an exceptional standard as we put the time in to not only our customers but to our own personal development by educating ourselves.

The problem then comes from the customer point of view who is then not willing to pay for this experience and gets the cheapest person in to do a job which they may not be able to complete.

Maybe we should be referred to as RGEs from now on then (especially since I got given the engineer accolade from bernard green!)

Jon

I agree completely with all your comments, but would expand on two.
The public naively believe that the ' GAS SAFE ' logo means they can call up someone and they will be able to fix their boiler, especially as it has been serviced by them for years, ( was it done correctly is a different matter, and one that cannot be disproved by the customer - plumber 3 said it had definitely not been serviced correctly ).

When 2 plumbers completely disagree with one anothers findings and even readings from the boiler ( one condemning it - yet leaving it turned on!, the other saying it is working within guidelines) where does that leave the customer?
Absolutely confused and out of pocket not trusting either of them.

ALong comes plumber 3, who cannot perform the flu emissions test because she says plumber 2 has broken something and not serviced it correctly, orders another part and hopefully that cheap part for 20 quid has fixed the whole issue.
Shame it's cost me over £300 in the process and it isn't fixed yet.

The cost is not important to be honest. I did not ring round for quotes, I used the man I have known years, and then another that has come recommended - I have no idea if she is cheap or expensive.
She did however say she was an engineer with over ten years experience and loves mending boilers - compared to number 2 that said he hated mending boilers ( as he was leaving- remember no replies... ).

Let's hope tonight it is sorted.

 

[bernardgreen]

(especially since I got given the engineer accolade from bernard green!)

That accolade will do nothing for your career or reputation.

But in reality Eric Walton's experience does show that the Gas Safe registration is just that Gas SAFE. There is no real indication of ability to diagnose and / or repair equipment other than testing the equipment is safe to use and condeming it if it is not safe.