Build your own garage door - hanger style

[jonwestuk]

Hi All,

I need a garage door for a single garage that has been converted into a room. My use of the room is going to be a little odd - essentially I want to use it to house my motorcycle, tools etc, but also have it as a study. I therefore want the following:

• To use an absolute minimum of ceiling space (preferably none) so that I can hang items from the ceiling.
• To use a minimum of wall space when the door opens / closes (preferably only a small amount to support the automatic opener/closer & counterbalance mechanism)
• To have a door with reasonable insulative properties to keep me warm.
• To include 2 pains of double glazed glass to let light into the room
• Ideally to be automatic (should have not a must)
• Not to obstruct the left or right outside of the property when the door is open (as I need to angle the motorcycle so that I can ride past the car on the driveway)

Nothing on the market really hits my needs. Domina doors come close as they only use a small amount of ceiling space but it costs over £6k which is a lot of money: http://www.dominadoors.co.uk/

What I really want, is an externally folding hangar style door (like this) but I cant find anyone in the UK that makes them. Does anyone know where I might be able to source such a thing?

Alternatively, I consider myself an expert DIYer and I would consider making it myself. There are only a few concerns I have:
1. How to counterbalance the door properly (where could I get such a unit.
2. Where to buy a control unit for a garage door (which I would probably connect to some form of winch, and some electric drop bolts for security)
3. Are there any building regs against making your own doors? The room is still listed as a garage and it still retains a double locked fire door to the house and fire resistant ceiling & walls.

Thanks for your help,

Jon

 

[Burnerman]

I think a roller garage door would meet all of your requirements apart from the panes of glass - however some makes have ventilation and vision panels.
At least they needn't interfere with the ceiling, are secure and can be insulated.
John

 

[jonwestuk]

I think a roller garage door would meet all of your requirements apart from the panes of glass - however some makes have ventilation and vision panels.
At least they needn't interfere with the ceiling, are secure and can be insulated.
John

I agree, but my wife has said no based on aesthetic reasons. Apparently our house is already ugly enough, without having a roller door on the garage

 

[jonwestuk]

 

[Burnerman]

If you are sharing a room with your motorbike, who cares what the house looks like?
That's a grand proposal you have produced there, but it has to be pretty expensive I guess. Google garage doors and you'll get the idea!
Hope you find what you are looking for.
John

 

[SimonH2]

I vaguely recall that the doors of this type I've seen have been worked with hydraulic rams & aren't counterbalanced.

What you'd need to consider is that there's a lot of weight cantilevered out when open - the typical up-and-over door doesn't really have much of that. So you'll need some substantial bracing if it's not going to pull the front of the garage off !

How wide do you need the opening, have you considered sliding doors ? With multiple sections, and/or if you can open past the outer side of the building, then you can get a good opening width.

 

[jonwestuk]

If you are sharing a room with your motorbike, who cares what the house looks like?
That's a grand proposal you have produced there, but it has to be pretty expensive I guess. Google garage doors and you'll get the idea!
Hope you find what you are looking for.
John

Expense is the problem, I wonder however whether this would be that expensive to make myself. I reckon 2 x 12mm structural Ply outside, 2 x 6mm non-structural inside, and a load of 44mmx69mm wood sandwiched in the middle with insulation. That would not be crazy expensive. Winches, electric locks etc are all fairly cheap these days as are the control units. I reckon I could build the whole thing for less than £1000, which would save me a fortune vs most other doors.

 

[jonwestuk]

What you'd need to consider is that there's a lot of weight cantilevered out when open - the typical up-and-over door doesn't really have much of that. So you'll need some substantial bracing if it's not going to pull the front of the garage off !

The counter levered weight is indeed the issue. A lot of the companies that make these seem not to bother counter levering the door at all. They just attach a winch to the ceiling and rely purely on electric opening. It would be nice to have a bit of cantilever just in case I did need to open it. I have seen some companies build a small cage to one side of the door, where they attach a weighted line. This is a single garage (2.4m wide) and I dont mind losing a small amount of space in the corner (it would be better than I would otherwise lose using a traditional door.)

How wide do you need the opening, have you considered sliding doors ? With multiple sections, and/or if you can open past the outer side of the building, then you can get a good opening width.

I have a large metal RSJ Lintel over the opening at the moment which I think could easily hold the weight - attaching some decent wood to it could be great fun though! I will admit that this would be an interesting project, but maybe worth it for the savings?

 

[jonwestuk]

How wide do you need the opening, have you considered sliding doors ? With multiple sections, and/or if you can open past the outer side of the building, then you can get a good opening width.

I did consider sliding doors, that was the first option to be honest. We had some quotes and the first thing that we were told was that the warranty would be null and void if I were to be riding my motorcycle over the tracks . Then my wife noted that this type of door didnt look like a garage and therefore looked rather on a house that already doesn't have much curb appeal. My wife therefore wants something much more traditional. I need something practical!

 

[SimonH2]

... the warranty would be null and void if I were to be riding my motorcycle over the tracks

WTF
Sliding doors are used a lot in industry (and on aircraft hangars), and with a lot of much worse traffic going over the tracks. I would ask someone else !

And another option that's just come to mind. Rather than the parallel tracks and overlapping doors style, how about one of those that slides in one track and folds away at the side ? There are various ways of doing it, but I'd be (as a starting point) thinking along the lines of :
First section is hinged to the side of the opening and opens inwards.
Second section is hinged to the first, and has runners top and bottom of it's free end in the track. So push the hinged side inwards, and the two sections will fold flat against each other at the side of the opening.
Next two sections are repeat of the above, but hinged to section 2 rather than the side of the opening.
Repeat as often as needed.
Last section has a free end and can be opened inwards on it's own for pedestrian access.

The appearance on the outside can be pretty much whatever you want and have the skills to build.

The next variant that comes to mind modifies it as :
The second section is twice the width of the first, and is hung on the tracks at it's middle. Then th following sections are the same width as the second, with the even ones hung on the tracks and the odd ones "free". The advantage of this is that the open sections are roughly balanced, rather than trying to "fall inwards" putting side loading on the track runners. I suspect you have larger and heavier panels without problems with the runners, at the expense of the doors sticking out a little when open.

Opening is a matter of : unlock end section, open in, walk in. Unbolt all the sections, pull the hinge of the first/second sections inwards and slide the whole lot along, then pull the hinge between 3/4 inwards and slide the whole lot along, until the whole lot is flat against the side of the opening.
Closing is a matter of : grab free end, pull across the opening and all the sections will unfold and follow across. Push the panels into place and drop the bolts.

 

[jonwestuk]

... the warranty would be null and void if I were to be riding my motorcycle over the tracks

WTF
Sliding doors are used a lot in industry (and on aircraft hangars), and with a lot of much worse traffic going over the tracks. I would ask someone else !

I appreciate that other people do have them in bug hangars like that. I think their issue is that they dont want to sink the lower track into the bottom of the house. To be honest, most installers seem to shy away from anything non standard.

My wife and I would also prefer to to have side folding doors for looks and practicality. Mainly that with a car parked in front of the garage outward opening could be problematic, and inward opening means you lose space again. Also I think it would be more difficult to automate side opening doors. Anyhow, the wife vetoed the idea.

Here is another go at some designs:

 

[SimonH2]

For the bifold lifting door, I suggest you start with an estimate of the weight, then draw yourself a force vector diagram in the raised position. The higher you lift it, the shorter the moment arm between upper hinge and lower roller becomes. So you have all that weight of the doors, supported by an ever shorter lever - so the forces on the upper hinges lower track rollers increases.

That's why I warned about the cantilever forces involved. The upper hinge will try and pull the front wall off, while the runners on the bottom door will try and push the track indoors. So you'll have to restrict how far you open the door, probably losing considerable headroom.

 

[kazuya]

just a thought but i wouldn't have windows in the doors, garages are bad enough already for being broken into even without being able to look in first and see motorcycles etc
if you need light how about a skylight in the roof?

 

[theprinceofdarkness]

As far as I can see you need two distinct mechanisms. the first is a bit like your third drawing , once you have a spring loaded idler to kick out the hinges, otherwise just pulling the wire the two sections will lock and try to lift up the lintel. With this mechanism only, the two doors will fold but only hang out by 20 degrees or so. You need a second mechanism to turn the top section outs to the horizontal.
Have you any experience with electronics? because I think torque controlled motors should be used rather then springs, much safer and easier to modify for an amateur. Loads of people sell chinese winches, mains operated, chinese rating is 220 Kg lifting weight, cost about £80.
Frank

 

[SimonH2]

If using a winch, take the cable down to the bottom of the door, round a pulley, back to the top and over another pulley, then down to a lever. When the cable is tensioned, it pulls the lever which can kick the centre out. You need to wind in a little over twice the cable, but only half the force.

The biggest issue I have with a winch is safety. You need two winches (one each side), or you need to arrange the cable run to operate on both sides at once. For this, you could run the cable from the winch, over a pulley at the top of the door, down to the bottom of the door, round a pulley, across to the other side of the door, round a pulley, up to the top, and potentially over a pulley and down to the "kick out" lever.
But, and this is a really really important issue, think about what happens when the cable breaks. I really do mean that, when the cable breaks, what happens. If you have two winches, then one side will drop "a bit", the doors will twist and jam, but it won't just slam shut at a million miles an hour. If you use one winch, then a cable break will let the door "just drop" which is a real safety issue - apart from it trying to break free of the fixings.

The usual way round this safety issue (and what's done with lifts and vehicle lifts) is to have brakes which will lock the door where it is unless there is tension on the cable.

Where I used to live, we had a huge (and heavy) up and over door on a double garage. The counterbalance springs were in a box across the door working via cables up to the lintel. The cables would snap every so often - with "quite a bang" as the spring relaxes, and the door would be left jammed half open and somewhat twisted. Dad would use a small block and tackle to re-tension the spring when fitting a new cable.

I believe a lot of the hangar door systems use hydraulics - an electric pump creates pressure to operate a pair of cylinders (one each side). These can be made safe from pipe bursts etc with safety valves - of 3 potential types.
One is simply a flow rate limiter, so when the door is lowered, the fluid flow rate is limited which limits the closing speed.
Another is a "fluid fuse" which shuts if the flow rate exceeds a set amount - ie it's normally open, but if a pipe bursts then the excess flow rate will shut the valve.
Lastly, there are valves which will only let the cylinder retract when there is pressure on the other end. So the system needs double acting cylinders, and the door will only close as fast as the power pack pumps pressure into the upper end of the cylinder. If a pipe bursts then the cylinders will just hold the door where it is.

In terms of geometry, the upper end of the cylinder can be fixed part way down the upper section (which needs to be long enough to take the bending forces) and the bottom end set back a bit into the building. That way, in the closed position, the cylinder is angled so it will push the door outwards as well as upwards - so no "kick out" mechanism required. or you could fit a very small sylinder connected in parallel with the lifting cylinders - so when you apply pressure to open the doors, the small cylinder will push the door out to the point where they'll open.

Something else to think about. If you lift the door by pushing upwards on a point (say) 1/3 up the upper section, then you can open further as the cylinders will be holding a lot of the outboard weight, and so less force on the hinges and track/rollers.