Changing direction of cable routing

[mikhailfaradayski]

My mother uses the safe zone for pinning up xmas decorations, what can you do?

make sure her insurance and will are upto date and in a safe place?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes, but read whats written in 522.6.6(v) and not advice from any contractors club. The only safe way for a cable to enter or exit an expanse of wall is via the corner zones or the top of wall zones.

(v) be installed in a zone within 150 mm from the top of the wall or partition or within 150 mm of an angle formed by two adjoining walls or partitions. Where the cable is connected to a point, accessory or switchgear on any surface of the wall or partition, the cable may be installed in a zone either horizontally or vertically, to the point, accessory or switchgear.....

You may not like that idea, but you cannot claim it does not comply.

There is no such zone, the only zones are vertically upwards or horizontal.

(v) be installed in a zone within 150 mm from the top of the wall or partition or within 150 mm of an angle formed by two adjoining walls or partitions. Where the cable is connected to a point, accessory or switchgear on any surface of the wall or partition, the cable may be installed in a zone either horizontally or vertically, to the point, accessory or switchgear.

Where does it say that the vertical zone only runs upwards?

Having had second thoughts, no it does'nt, so when coming from below (behind a skirting) the cable must be within 150mm of the corner of the room.

So if the corner zone doesn't stop at the skirting, why does a vertical accessory one?

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

safe zones extend horzontally and vertically from.. ( we all know the rest)
it doesn't say vertically upwards. The diagram in the osg also reflects this.
If the zones did not travel vertically downwards, i bet most houses in the uk that have socket outlewts upstairs are non compliant.
( i personally have never taken a radial/ring all the way to the loft space and then dropped back down the wall)
That may upset the simplified guidance for the installation of 'standard circuits' A1 A2 A3 in respect to the floor area served.

Although i think defining a 1m wide cooker hood as a safe zone is poor, i think it can be done:-

from 522.6.6 (v) 'blah, bla.....point or switchgear.... blah blah'

who says how to define what is mean't (in this context) by 'a point' ?
Why can this not be anything i reasonably want it to be?

Who says how to define what is mean't (in this context) by 'switch gear'?
oh, that'd be the big red book of poorly defined jokes and contradictions then?
so:-
Switchgear = ' an assembly..blah blah...for operation..or other control....electrical installation.'

Electrical installation= ' an assembly...electrical equipment...specific purposes (extracting fumes, specific enough?)

electrical equipment = 'any item....utilisation of electrical energy...appliances....'


Also, i read that people are focussing on the reg622.6.6 and keep saying that it dictates that an point must be able to been 'seen'. It might be a subtle difference here, but it does not say that. It says 'determined'

You can determine something by a number of means, not simply from seeing it. (maps, diagrams, instructions, touch, smell?)

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have fully explained what the reg says, take it or leave it.

The regulation says that the cable may be installed in a zone either horizontally or vertically, to the point, accessory or switchgear.

I don't see how you have managed to explain that that means the regulation says that the only safe way for a cable to enter or exit an expanse of wall is via the corner zones or the top of wall zones.

Cables can only go behind the skirting within 150mm of the room corner.

Since the regulation says that a cable may be installed in a zone either horizontally or vertically, to the point, accessory or switchgear, then if that point, accessory or switchgear is above a piece of skirting board then a cable may properly be run behind the skirting board.

No idea what you're talking about.

I mean that if you accept that a vertical zone in the 150mm of a room corner does not stop when it reaches the skirting board why do you think that the vertical zone from an accessory stops when it reaches the skirting board?

 

[ColJack]

further to BAS's point above, if the socket happens to be on / in the skirting ( as some older properties they are ) then it is acceptible to run behind the skirting as the accessory forms a zone horizontally..

I understand where you're coming from Holmslaw, you cannot drop to skirting leven then run behind it horizontally, but you CAN cross the skirting vertically to the floor void and run the cables in there as much as you can run up to the ceiling void and run in that.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

 

[ColJack]

and the point to that post was what BAS?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

A way to have skirting board with cables running horizontally behind it.

 

[ColJack]

A way to have skirting board with cables running horizontally behind it.

and 6 animated smiley faces indicate this how exactly?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Move your mouse pointer over them.

 

[ColJack]

ah very good, I suppose that I'm th only one that took them on face value as a pointless post rather than a secretly hidden set of hyperlinks with no written explanation then..

and I must ask, why aluminium? what's the pop rivets for and what are the crimpers, ring crimp and single earth wire for?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

ah very good, I suppose that I'm th only one that took them on face value as a pointless post rather than a secretly hidden set of hyperlinks with no written explanation then..

Probably not.

Sorry 'bout that.

and I must ask, why aluminium?

I couldn't find stainless steel

what's the pop rivets for and what are the crimpers, ring crimp and single earth wire for?

Earthing it.



OK - you probably wouldn't really want metal skirting, but if you actually did need to run cables horizontally behind the wooden stuff I guess a 1mm or so earthed steel plate fixed to the back of the skirting would make it OK.

Or you could argue that a cable clipped to the wall and then covered with skirting is not, technically, concealed in the wall...

 

[ColJack]

the skirting over the top makes it a partition..

1mm steel is not sufficient to stop nails, and otherwise it needs surounding with earthed metal, not just over the top of it..

you know the rules BAS, you quote them often enough..

you had a few tonight BAS? you don't normally condone the use of lots of smileys in posts..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

the skirting over the top makes it a partition..

Not sure I agree with that. What about dado trunking, if you don't happen to put any accessories in it?

1mm steel is not sufficient to stop nails,

It would stop them at least as well as the armour wires in SWA, and a damn sight better than the foil in BS 8436 cable.

and otherwise it needs surounding with earthed metal, not just over the top of it..

If the cable was at least 50mm from the top edge of the skirting, and the wall was at least 50mm thick then it would not. It would be positioned in the path of any nail or screw etc approaching from the <50mm direction.

you know the rules BAS, you quote them often enough..

I do know the rules, and I believe that an earthed steel plate would be at least as safe as SWA or BS 8436 or MICC and would therefore be permissible as per 120.3.

you had a few tonight BAS? you don't normally condone the use of lots of smileys in posts..

I would have preferred plain non-animated numbers. Got bored looking.