Combi supplying a shower with hot water

[Hugh Jaleak]

So by Bernard's 'logic' most of the people who took part in the 'Ice bucket challenge' in previous years should be dead?

 

[JohnD]

Is there some reason why plumbers assume they know all about it? And don't check?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cold+water+shock

 

[bernardgreen]

most of the people who took part in the 'Ice bucket challenge' in previous years should be dead?

No because they were aware that they were going to get cold very suddenly.

At least two are recorded as having died, not by drowning and not by hypothermia. Others have suffered injury such as dislocated joints caused by muscle spasms.

 

[bernardgreen]

Is there some reason why plumbers assume they know all about it?

It is in their training, it has to be doesn't it. No professional would ever be so narrow minded as to see nothing beyond the task in hand.

 

[JohnD]

It seems like none of the plumbers have boats so have not done RYA or RN first-aid courses which include it.

 

[JohnD]

http://navigation.gl/media/gst/2550214/MSC1Circ1185GuideForColdWaterSurvivalSecretariat.pdf

".6 Stay out of the water as long as possible! Try to minimize the shock of sudden

cold immersion. A sudden plunge into cold water can cause rapid death, or an

uncontrollable rise in breathing rate may result in an intake of water into the lungs.
If jumping into the water is unavoidable, you should try to keep your elbows to

your side and cover your nose and mouth with one hand while holding the wrist or

elbow firmly with the other hand. Avoid jumping onto the liferaft canopy or

jumping into the water astern of a liferaft, in case the ship has some remaining

headway."

http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/resources/Pages/Firstaidandmedical.aspx
Cold Water Shock
With effect from 1 January 2013, Man Overboard training on all practical courses should include discussion of the dangers of cold water shock for the casualty immediately upon entering the water.

The general teaching points are:

• You will likely gasp for air, then breath rapidly.
• Can only hold breath for seconds so protect your airway from waves and spray.
• Your heart will be working harder, so don’t try to swim, just relax!
• The effects will be at its worst in the first 30 seconds but will have gone within 3 minutes.

 

[bernardgreen]

In this review we describe a cardiac arrhythmogenic response that we believe may account for some immersion deaths but, due to its nature, largely goes unnoticed or detected. We have termed the trigger for this response ‘autonomic conflict’. It is inherent in our hypothesis that such autonomic conflict, particularly in the presence of other predisposing factors (see below), may provide the substrate for lethal rhythm disturbances and hence may explain some of the more puzzling statistics relating to cold water immersion, namely, 67% of drownings occur in strong swimmers and 55% of these are within 3 m of a safe haven (Home Office Report, 1977). These short-term deaths are usually ascribed to drowning and occasionally, when no water appears to have entered the lung, to hypothermia or ‘dry’ drowning, even though the period of immersion is too short (<30 min) for dangerous levels of hypothermia to occur, and the evidence for ‘dry’ drowning is unconvincing (Golden & Tipton, 2002). Electrical disturbances to the heart are usually not considered as a cause of death, primarily because they are undetectable post-mortem, and the incapacitation they cause may lead to agonal gasping, aspiration of water and death as a result of what appears to have been drowning (McDonough et al. 1987).

read it all at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3459038/

 

[Roger928]

"Cold water shock is the short term and involuntary reaction that the human body has to being immersed in cold water."
RNLI
The key word being "immersed".
A domestic shower that's turns cold is not going to replicate that scenario.

 

[Roger928]

read it all at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3459038/

From your link....
"Cold water submersion"

How does a shower "submerge" anyone?
And still no mention of combination boilers.

 

[JohnD]

And still no mention of combination boilers.

I'm pretty sure that a Royal Navy document on falling into the sea will not mention combination boilers.

It does mention cold-water shock, though.

What does the Plumbers Association document on cold-water shock say about falling overboard?

 

[Roger928]

I'm pretty sure that a Royal Navy document on falling into the sea will not mention combination boilers.

It does mention cold-water shock, though.

This thread is about combination boilers delivering water to a shower head.
And the chances of being immersed is pretty low.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Perhaps the plumbers know the difference between a shower running cold (almost impossible to be blow 4 degrees) and a bucket of Ice, North Sea sailing accident (yes my dad does have boats and we used to go sailing in the English Channel quite regularly as well as him having the night navigation qualifications from the pre GPS days) or indeed jumping into Hampstead ponds starkers on a December morning.

At least we know who's interfering with posts.


Bernard - have you found any proof of your concerns yet? I mean combination boilers must be selling what? 1.3 million units a year in the UK? I guess that's one way to bring the aging population under control.

 

[Roger928]

It seems like none of the plumbers have boats so have not done RYA or RN first-aid courses which include it.

Well I can't recall plumbers needing a "boat" in a domestic plumbing situation.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Hey @bernardgreen - How many combination boilers were installed in 1977?

Wonder how many people died from scalding or freezing due to gravity systems failing back then?


Idiot.


Perhaps I'll ask my Step Brother and his wife - they're deep sea geological survey divers. Probably forget more about sailing and cold water before their breakfasts than Bernard could ever know.

Or perhaps my Uncle - he's a Divemaster.

FFS the drivel we get from Google warriors is unreal.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Now - whilst we're on the subject of thermal shock - I'm going back outside to finish reorganising my van. Bloody freezing it is out there.

Well 2 degrees. Couldn't find my penis for a pish a few minutes ago when i came in.