Double glazing misting problem - but not all the time.....

[slpj]

Heres a link for you try, it tries to back up your argument that dgu's can be repaired but uses a different method to yours http://www.crystalclearwindowworks.co.uk/process/thewhy.htm
But after reading that little lot be sure to try this next link...
http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/crystal-clear-window-works-c192520.html Enjoy!

I did enjoy. Thanks Crank39. Very informative, in particular the explanations that backup my arguments that explain the causes of the failure.

It is my understanding that in order to register a patent(s), --- and they seem to have a few don't they, --- you have to have much more than a daft idea. The idea has to have some basis, else it is rejected. (Can anybody qualify that?).

Anyway, regardless of the process, the franchisees carrying out the work might well be incompetent in some cases, and indeed it seems they are.

Changing a tyre or an exhaust are long and well tested procedures, and yet there are still places you can go, (well known tyre and exhaust service centers) who employ people with little more IQ than a postage stamp, with the result that exhausts fall off and wheels are incorrectly balanced. Sadly engineering, or any manual trade, especially the construction and allied trades, attracts too many of the type that couldn't have suceeded at school even if they tried. I'm sure you know the type. I'm sure you have met plenty. It is no surprise to me that a system, even if good is capable of being compromised by it's operator. Back to the weakest link again.

On the face of it, the Crystal system looks good, I will check it out. I might even get them round to quote one window and repair it, if it is cheap enough. If it works, I might even enquire about a franchise.

You are probably laughing . I'm not. I believe that there is a solution to failed units other than discarding them, and maybe this is one that works.

You're not wrong when you say that glass has become so cheap of late, that the perception is, that it is no longer worth even attempting repair of dgus. (I should add here, that the prices I have been quoted for replacing my own leaded dgus, are in part what led me to this debate in the first place. Though if you can supply as cheaply as you say above, that may no longer be a valid argument in my favour.)

Anyway, it's true also that we live in an age called the throw-away society. (In the developed world anyway, go east and south, you will get an different view point).

However, it's also true, that it is increasingly recognised that we can't go on like this. It doesn't matter if you are of the greenpeace save the whale, save the world persuasion, or think them all a bunch of CND left wing anarchist freaks. The fact is that we are rapidly approaching the point that we simply run out of raw materials, or the supply of them is so costly or difficult, as to make them effectively unusable. If you look at the price of oil, copper steel, etc etc. demand is so great now, that if it weren't for the current economic chaos, the prices of these would be far higher than now.

Yes recycling has a part to play, but even that uses energy and raw materials. Far cheaper in all repsects is to use less and to use what is used more effectively. That is the eventual direction we will all be forced to follow, and it has already started. Just one small example, is to properly insulate houses at build rather than later, in order to save on future energy costs.

I believe that replacing sealed dgus, is a doomed enterprise (at some future date), and that repairing failed dgus, is viable, but still only a step towards them being made "properly" in the first place, -- so that they don't fail in such a short time, relative to the potential of the materials used in their construction.

 

[crank39]

Crank39. Just a point. No I dont intend to find and seal the leak (unless its a large and very obvious one) or to replace the sealant and or desiccant, if the drying method can be established. Just returning the desiccant to its "dry" state would restore its absorbant properties.

So you aren't repairing the fault at all then! You assume all units fail because they aren't on the correct packers and sit in water just like yours were, yes that can be a cause of some but not all, units fail for all sorts of reasons and the most common IMO is that they have reached the end of their 5 year life.

If you just lift the unit out of the frame, dry it on the back lawn and then re-fit it even on correct bridge packers what is to stop moist humid air re-entering the unit again and starting the process all over again, the point of a sealed unit is that its SEALED, any moisture that is trapped in the cavity during manufacture gets sucked up by the dessicant and thats it, nothing more nothing less!

I'm not knocking you, far from it, good luck to you infact but i just fail to see how you have repaired anything.

 

[slpj]

Crank39:

the point of a sealed unit is that its SEALED

And thats one of my points. The units aren't fully sealed. The sealant is imperfect, and the desiccant does more than just soak up the mousture from manufacture, it is there to soak up future moisture too, but can only do so until saturated.

You are right though. I haven't repaired anything in the unit itself. That point got lost in the discussion that followed.

I made an accidental discovery, that allowing my unit to get very hot, evaporated the moisture within the unit and the desiccant.

I posted that I was theorising/guessing, that was the cause of the apparant "fix", after I had re-installed the unit and it did not, and has not to date remisted.

Clearly its not magic, and something has changed. The units are mist free. You have to take note of that (well you dont have to but I think you should). It has rained hard, though not particularly long, been cold and hot, and yet 2 of my units are mist free.

There has to be a leak in the unit for sure, (although not neccessarily any more than at first installation) otherwise the desiccant couldn't saturate and allow misting. But I haven't touched the sealant, only improved the drainage and added a bit of packing, and by accident dried out the units. I didn't see any other cause for the failure of my units, and attributed it to both the combined effect of the poor drainage and less than perfect sealant. Apart from mechanical stress, cracked glass etc, what else is there? So called "Thermal pumping" is said to be the main cause of damp air entering the unit. Seems reasonable to me from the description of the mechanism.

Desiccant can be dried out. It appears to have been. If so then i am back at the date when the units were first installed as far as the desiccant is concerned. So why shouldnt they take as long again to saturate the desiccant and mist up?

You say that the most common cause of failure is that the units have reached the end of their 5 year life, but you dont cite a cause. Reached the end of their five year life due to what? There are only 4 components I think. Glass, spacer, desiccant and sealant. Only 2 of those are subject to change once in frame. The sealant and the desiccant. The desiccant doesn't fail, only fills up. If it can be emptied, then its back to the sealant. If the sealant is essentially the same after 5 years, as it was at year zero, then its only the desiccant that is the cause of the failure, and that can be dried.

And what 5 year life? Until coming on here to post, I assumed that if I did buy replacement dgu's they would last about as long as my originals. (20 years). So I feel even less inclined towards replacements when told that they will fail in a quarter of the time it took my originals to fail.

Most units are gauranteed 10 years from new installation and 15 by some. So I ask again, why is this, and why are replacements only given 5 year warranties?

Thats not much of an advertisement for replacent units, and seems to be a step backwards.

Are replacement dg units made to an inferior quality compared to originals?

Is that why they are so comapratively cheap?

 

[crank39]

.......'The units aren't fully sealed.......

Incorrect, sealed units are fully sealed....air tight!

..... 'The sealant is imperfect, and the desiccant does more than just soak up the mousture from manufacture, it is there to soak up future moisture too, but can only do so until saturated'.....

Again incorrect. The dessicant soaks up any moisture that gets trapped within the unit, the cavity is now sealed from the elements, nothing gets in and nothing gets out. Now some time in the future this seal breaks down, whether fitted incorrectly and sat in water, or in a south facing elevation, incorrect silicone used to hold packers, or even a football being kick against it.

When the once perfectly ok seal fails it leaks air in......and out, known in this thread as 'thermal pumping', during this time the dessicant does all it can for as long as it can until finally it can do no more and as you correctly point out becomes 'saturated'. So you can dry your units on the back lawn all week long or whatever other method you have in mind, it makes no odds, you might very well dry out the dessicant and evapourate any water in there but you fail to find the source of the air leak.....the FAILURE, you re-fit the unit, take the customers money and go!

Now, think about it, even though that unit is fitted properly it is still able to 'thermal pump', doesn't matter that its not sat in water anymore, theres plenty of water vapour in the air for it to suck in, heck 2 people breathe out 1.5 pints of water a night. So the process starts again, the dessicant soaks up the moisture, like it should and it'll keep doing so and doing so till its SATURATED AGAIN and then the unit mists up.

I guess thats when you get a phone call from your customer wanting their money back or a new unit, one that you probably talked them out of and offered to do a repair.

 

[slpj]

Incorrect, sealed units are fully sealed....air tight!
The dessicant soaks up any moisture that gets trapped within the unit, the cavity is now sealed from the elements, nothing gets in and nothing gets out.

I will have to take that under advisement, because, -----
1) I thought you previously agreed that sealants are imperfect, and do not hermetically seal 100% (maybe you didn't intend to, or didn't realise you did).
2)I have read elsewhere, that this is the case, and that the leak of gas in both directions can be attributed to imperfect sealant. Argon for instance, starts leaking out as soon as the unit is "sealed", and some express doubt in its use for this very reason. So if argon can get out, air can get in along with moisture, that the desiccant eventually can't soak up.

I'll come back to that later. Bet you cant wait.

Since this all boils down to the sealant, again I ask how can a 40 year old glass 100L fish tank be bonded and not leak, and yet a dgu is kaput after 5 years?

Hopefully a fish tank doesn't get a ball kicked at it, but after even 20 years, with it being moved around, and obviously filled with water, -- in direct contact with the seal -- (whatever is used for fish tanks), it still doesn't leak. Not all windows are subject to footballs, so if the sealant was perfect in the first place, then why does it fail so soon?

Answer, it wasn't perfect in the first place?

Meanwhile, you didn't answer my question about the warranties.
Why the difference of at least 5 years, in a warranty for glass in a new installation, and the warranty for replacement glass?

Why are replacement units subject to failure, FAR sooner than newly installed units?

 

[slpj]

Sooner than I expected,---

Here's a section from an item First published in The Sunday Telegraph

Double glazing is not so amazing.

In any case, there is no way that new sealed double-glazed units are going to last 100 years. They are doomed to eventually fail because of the way they are made. The two panes of glass are joined at the edge with a polymer compound, which by its very nature is slightly vapour-permeable - ie it will always allow a small amount of water vapour to enter from outside.

So to keep the glass from misting up, each double- glazed unit also incorporates a desiccant - a drying agent - housed within a perforated alloy strip running around the edge.

This desiccant absorbs the invading moisture and prevents misting. But eventually there will come a day when it can absorb no more. It will be saturated, and then there will be free water between the panes, which will form as mist on the glass. How long this takes depends upon the quality of the materials and workmanship.

------------- Again from the Sunday Telegraph.

The desiccant is there to absorb the very small amount of water vapour that finds its way through the edge sealant. If the window is properly glazed, it should remain mist-free for at least 20 years.

I can find a number of references to the imperfect sealant, and a number of references that suggest a far longer life than 5 years for a sealed unit. So it's my conclusion that removal, inspection, recitification of any installation problems, and if possible drying the unit, should extend its life.

 

[crank39]

Ok i'll try and answer your question

Most salesmen and certainly DG salesman talk ballcox , they will promise the earth and blind you with science. Every guarantee that every DG company offer is different so check yours! Coldseal used to offer a lifetime guarantee........but on what and on who's life.......yours or theirs?

The warranties i see are of the 10yr insurance backed type but all gaurantee something slightly differently, every IBG bought by the DG company is different from even the last one they bought, they pick and choose what they want covering.

Most warranties cover the installation for 10 yrs, its not until you have a problem that you read the small print and realise the salesman 'LIED' to you, you see that although you have a 10 yr guarantee it only applies to the frames, reading on you'll find the units are only covered for 5 yrs and more alarming still the locks, hinges, handles and mechanisms are only covered for 1 yr.

Why is this........because dgu's just don't last, why don't they last.........i don't know! Even a correctly fitted dgu will fail eventually and yes its the hotmelt or polysulphide that fails. Some last 20 yrs and some won't last 2 yrs but you claim for the 2 yr old ones and you praise the 20 yr old ones for good service.

Anyway fishtanks, i think that are siliconed together with a suitable fishtank silicone.

All windows are at risk of being hit, whether it be footballs or bird strike, i've known units to mist up days after being flown in to by a bird, why is this, maybe the seal has hardened and a sudden jolt........???

As for the sealant not being perfect in the first place, possibly. Thats why some don't last and some do but i must agree it clearly isn't the best at sealing 2 panes together otherwise we'd have no issues but its the best we've got at present.

Replacement units aren't subject to failure FAR sooner than originals, its just pot luck

Thats why i find it difficult to accept a repair by JUST drying out a unit.......................what about finding the leak?

 

[crank39]

Sooner than I expected,---

Here's a section from an item First published in The Sunday Telegraph

Double glazing is not so amazing.

In any case, there is no way that new sealed double-glazed units are going to last 100 years. They are doomed to eventually fail because of the way they are made. The two panes of glass are joined at the edge with a polymer compound, which by its very nature is slightly vapour-permeable - ie it will always allow a small amount of water vapour to enter from outside.

So to keep the glass from misting up, each double- glazed unit also incorporates a desiccant - a drying agent - housed within a perforated alloy strip running around the edge.

This desiccant absorbs the invading moisture and prevents misting. But eventually there will come a day when it can absorb no more. It will be saturated, and then there will be free water between the panes, which will form as mist on the glass. How long this takes depends upon the quality of the materials and workmanship.

------------- Again from the Sunday Telegraph.

The desiccant is there to absorb the very small amount of water vapour that finds its way through the edge sealant. If the window is properly glazed, it should remain mist-free for at least 20 years.

I can find a number of references to the imperfect sealant, and a number of references that suggest a far longer life than 5 years for a sealed unit. So it's my conclusion that removal, inspection, recitification of any installation problems, and if possible drying the unit, should extend its life.

Sorry, thought that article was from the Independant on Sunday

I see you neglected to include this bit.........

........'And once these double glazed units mist up inside there is nothing - but nothing - that can be done to remedy it'............

Anyway, i don't make units, i don't promise they'll last 20 yrs, i don't know of a better way to seal them, i don't bulls hit the policy holders and i change them IF they're covered. But what i didn't know is that it is claimed that the sealant used isn't air tight............maybe thats why some last 20yrs and some don't, correctly fitted or not!

 

[bowie77]

the main reason dg units break down is the sun. it heats up the sealant, usually hotmelt, causing it to fail over time. if you notice most units that break down are in the sun for a lot of the day

 

[slpj]

Thanks for your pretty comprehensive answers to my questions Crank39. Yes your right I did quote selectively, because the article was too long to quote the whole thing. I could have also quoted that;

One of the great unspoken truths of sealed double-glazed units (SGUs) is that eventually they will all mist up. The timescale should be twenty-ish years in a perfectly made and installed window. But in poorly made ones it can be a lot less. Five months has been reported.

And this about the desiccant, and construction of the sealed unit.

--desiccant absorbs the invading moisture ----. ---eventually ----. It will be saturated, -----. How long this takes depends upon the quality of the materials and workmanship.

It seems that there is a lot of smoke and mirrors, and a lot of what the customer isn’t told. Particularly about the life expectancy of the most important part of double glazed windows. The sealed unit itself. Most companies want to talk about the frames. Not the sealed units, and how long they will last. And they certainly don’t want to tell you that replacements are only likely to last for 5 years.

I re-read, (this time more sceptically) the double glazing guarantee by Anglian, they do separately cover the glazed units for 15 years. BUT, there are a few caveats, that may well give them an escape route if I they receive a claim on misted units. Anglian make the point that their "ultra units" as they called them in 2001, were made to a higher standard than their standard sealed unit. How much of this is the ballcox you mentioned, I don't know.

Anyway, I read up about so called higher standard of manufacture for DG units , and found a number of things out. Seems there are various and differing quality of Sealants and Desiccants used in the manufacture of dg units.

There is a measurement for the sealant called the moisture vapour transmission or transfer rate, or MVTR. This basically tells you how much water vapour gets past the sealant in a given 24-hour period, and confirms that sealants are not perfect. The transmission rate is low, but it is there nonetheless. As rightly said, one role of a desiccant in the manufacture of a sealed double glazed unit is to absorb moisture that is “unavoidably” ??, trapped within the unit during manufacture. The amount of moisture is dependent upon the relative humidity at the time that the double glazed unit is sealed and so it varies from unit to unit. Then, throughout the life of the sealed unit external moisture passes through the edge sealant (because of the sealants MVTR). The desiccant serves to absorb this moisture throughout the lifetime of the unit, but can be eventually saturated due to MVT through the sealant, especially if exacerbated by the presence of water if any in the drainage channel. This is Prior to so called failure of the unit seal, due to the physical stress excerted by such as footballs and heat.

Meanwhile, the desiccant should have the capacity to absorb more moisture post production obviously. However, it turns out that not all desiccants are born equal either, and some don’t achieve this capability. Therre is a maeasurement for the performance of the desiccant too, and presumably desiccant, like sealants are manufactured and purchased to a price. It appears too that some are substandard, or are not suited to their purpose, or are already effectively "wet", -- anyway less than completely dry, when installed in the units. But this is not easy to test for, with obvious consequences.

It seems logical that DG units made from more costly materials must cost more to make and supply. However, they would also last longer.

Now I want to know more about the spacer bar. I thought that this was cut and dried (no pun intended), and that aluminium is tried and tested space bar technology, and doesn’t contribute to the failure of the dg unit. Not so it seems. Now it has been superseded by Warm Edge space bar technology, made entirely of foam. This adds increased durability to the unit. A better seal is possible with decreased MVTR, and less mechanical strees exerted on the seal due to less thermal movement.

Presumabley this comes at an increase in price. However, I think I would rather pay more for a replacement than have to do it every 5 years, and I might if I could get them at the proportionately very cheap prices quoted above. Fair enough I'm retail and not trade. But I want to fit them myself and reduce the cost, especially if I have to re-fit again in 5 years. So now more than ever, I am determined that I won't buy a dg replacement unit that only offers a 5 year warranty, and equally determined to find out why my unit(s) are still mist free, after my accidental fix.

bowie77. From what I have read, sun facing appears to be a significant factor, but still there are units never in the sun that fail prematurely. That must be to do with manufacture, if installation and abuse/damage factors can be elliminated.

Here is another bit of info I found.

Fogging: IGU's provide better protection against fogging than a single pane of glass. However, IGU's made without proper quality control, poor desiccant filling practices, inadequate quantities or incorrect type of desiccants, or a poor hermetic seal are more prone to fogging.

Getting back to the 5 years of warranty for replacement DG units.
How long do you (anybody) expect a 5 year warrantied replacement unit to actually last?
Are they double edge sealed?
Are they conventional spacer bar or warm edge?

 

[sotal]

I would expect the units to last longer than 5 years but wouldn't be overly surprised if they failed just after 5.

Our current house is 32 years old. I moved in 4 years ago and it still had the original windows and dg units.

I changed them 2 years ago, so they had lasted 30 years. But when I say lasted - that was how long they had existed - some of them had failed and were misted from when we bought the house and I don't know how long before.

Our house faces North East at the front and gets little sun at the front. The rear of our house faces South West, and the back gets sun from about 10am until sunset. None of the windows on the front had misted at all - so they had successfully lasted the 30 years. Nearly all the ones on the rear had misted.

As I mentioned before though the frames at this point looked dated, so we wanted new frames anyway - so new frames and new glass were put in.

 

[crank39]

Thanks for your pretty comprehensive answers to my questions Crank39. Yes your right I did quote selectively, because the article was too long to quote the whole thing. I could have also quoted that;

One of the great unspoken truths of sealed double-glazed units (SGUs) is that eventually they will all mist up. The timescale should be twenty-ish years in a perfectly made and installed window. But in poorly made ones it can be a lot less. Five months has been reported.

And this about the desiccant, and construction of the sealed unit.

--desiccant absorbs the invading moisture ----. ---eventually ----. It will be saturated, -----. How long this takes depends upon the quality of the materials and workmanship.

It seems that there is a lot of smoke and mirrors, and a lot of what the customer isn’t told. Particularly about the life expectancy of the most important part of double glazed windows. The sealed unit itself. Most companies want to talk about the frames. Not the sealed units, and how long they will last. And they certainly don’t want to tell you that replacements are only likely to last for 5 years.

I re-read, (this time more sceptically) the double glazing guarantee by Anglian, they do separately cover the glazed units for 15 years. BUT, there are a few caveats, that may well give them an escape route if I they receive a claim on misted units. Anglian make the point that their "ultra units" as they called them in 2001, were made to a higher standard than their standard sealed unit. How much of this is the ballcox you mentioned, I don't know.

Anyway, I read up about so called higher standard of manufacture for DG units , and found a number of things out. Seems there are various and differing quality of Sealants and Desiccants used in the manufacture of dg units.

There is a measurement for the sealant called the moisture vapour transmission or transfer rate, or MVTR. This basically tells you how much water vapour gets past the sealant in a given 24-hour period, and confirms that sealants are not perfect. The transmission rate is low, but it is there nonetheless. As rightly said, one role of a desiccant in the manufacture of a sealed double glazed unit is to absorb moisture that is “unavoidably” ??, trapped within the unit during manufacture. The amount of moisture is dependent upon the relative humidity at the time that the double glazed unit is sealed and so it varies from unit to unit. Then, throughout the life of the sealed unit external moisture passes through the edge sealant (because of the sealants MVTR). The desiccant serves to absorb this moisture throughout the lifetime of the unit, but can be eventually saturated due to MVT through the sealant, especially if exacerbated by the presence of water if any in the drainage channel. This is Prior to so called failure of the unit seal, due to the physical stress excerted by such as footballs and heat.

Meanwhile, the desiccant should have the capacity to absorb more moisture post production obviously. However, it turns out that not all desiccants are born equal either, and some don’t achieve this capability. Therre is a maeasurement for the performance of the desiccant too, and presumably desiccant, like sealants are manufactured and purchased to a price. It appears too that some are substandard, or are not suited to their purpose, or are already effectively "wet", -- anyway less than completely dry, when installed in the units. But this is not easy to test for, with obvious consequences.

It seems logical that DG units made from more costly materials must cost more to make and supply. However, they would also last longer.

Now I want to know more about the spacer bar. I thought that this was cut and dried (no pun intended), and that aluminium is tried and tested space bar technology, and doesn’t contribute to the failure of the dg unit. Not so it seems. Now it has been superseded by Warm Edge space bar technology, made entirely of foam. This adds increased durability to the unit. A better seal is possible with decreased MVTR, and less mechanical strees exerted on the seal due to less thermal movement.

Presumabley this comes at an increase in price. However, I think I would rather pay more for a replacement than have to do it every 5 years, and I might if I could get them at the proportionately very cheap prices quoted above. Fair enough I'm retail and not trade. But I want to fit them myself and reduce the cost, especially if I have to re-fit again in 5 years. So now more than ever, I am determined that I won't buy a dg replacement unit that only offers a 5 year warranty, and equally determined to find out why my unit(s) are still mist free, after my accidental fix.

bowie77. From what I have read, sun facing appears to be a significant factor, but still there are units never in the sun that fail prematurely. That must be to do with manufacture, if installation and abuse/damage factors can be elliminated.

Here is another bit of info I found.

Fogging: IGU's provide better protection against fogging than a single pane of glass. However, IGU's made without proper quality control, poor desiccant filling practices, inadequate quantities or incorrect type of desiccants, or a poor hermetic seal are more prone to fogging.

Getting back to the 5 years of warranty for replacement DG units.
How long do you (anybody) expect a 5 year warrantied replacement unit to actually last?
Are they double edge sealed?
Are they conventional spacer bar or warm edge?

Smoke and mirrors, ain't that the truth, the DG trade is plagued with it thats why i don't bulls hit, i tell it how it is using 20years experience.

As for Anglians 'ultra units' i'll reserve judgement on them, i wouldn't touch Anglian with a barge pole but thats just my opinion and i know Anglian rep's read this forum so i wouldn't like to get into trouble

As for spacer bars i don't think there is much trouble with them, whether its the basic aluminium or the better (now) warm edge spacer, i think the problem lies with the sealant adhearing to the glass not the spacer bar. IMO you'd pay a touch more for a unit made with a warm edge spacer because it usually goes hand in hand with 'K' or 'Planitherm' glass and is probably argon filled not because its a better quality manufacturing process.

As for the prices i quoted above, they are to the insurance company and are neither trade or retail prices, as i said joe public (you) WILL get them a bit cheaper, trade (me) will get them even cheaper .

If you're prepared to and fairly competant you can fit them yourself, fixed units are easy, openers can be a bit more difficult as you need to toe and heel but if you understand why and how it works then its easy too.

As for how long a unit should last, well i was going to type the exact same thing as sotal, it wasn't till i scrolled down that i saw he'd said the same

 

[joe-90]

I've read this thread through and can't for the life of me see why it would be worth repairing something commercially. Let's all start buying re-tread tyres again. They were half the price of new and lasted about a quarter of the time.

No-one would go for a bodged repair. It's madness.

 

[slpj]

I take it you are in the glazing trade too Joe90, and also get your replacement dg units at cheap trade prices. So for you I can see it might not be worth it, but from my point of view it is worth investigating; --- --- Irrespective of it being anything to do with a commercial enterprise, which wasn't the main point.

Can you tell me where I can buy replacements units that will last longer than 5 years? The concencus is that replacements will not last much longer than 5 years, and might not last that long.

If a DG window system fitted more than 20 years ago, (Sotal also posted his example) has windows that lasted that long, I don't understand why replacements cant' be manufactured that last as long? Or at least for 10 years, even if fitted in the south facing side of a house.

If you had a new installation done today, and in 5 years a number of the units failed with condensation, and the window co failed to replace them free, you could wipe the floor with them in court. I'm sure they dont want to risk every 5 years or sooner having to rplace dg units. So they supply and fit windows that last a lot longer than 5 years.

My own house is south facing at the front, and only 4 of the units are a problem. My window system was fitted prior to 1990. What's the difference between a replacement dg unit sold by xyz glaziers today, and one suppilied and fitted originally by Anglian or any other double glazing Co ltd, over 20 years ago? Methods and materials must have improved. Materials definitely have, so what's the difference between 20 years ago and now?

Why can't I buy a DG unit that will last for a good deal longer than 5 years. That's why I don't consider it madness to try and fix the ones I have. And I agree, I wouldn't fit re-treads any more than you. So I also dont want to buy an inferior unit to the ones originally fitted.

 

[God]

Mod close this topic it's getting recycled more times than the op,s recycled units. The final thing to say is if you start your business and you are still in business after 2 years hats off to you and come and tell us, but I will be surprised. Over and out