Eastern european installation.

[donglebang]

how can any one say that as a country we are racist were letting thousands and thousands into this country . not like germany belgium and austriawhich has drastically reduced the intake of immigrants . but also as a country poland will not allow romamians into their country to work to cover the jobs that are going as the poles are over here so they are racist then ???

 

[donglebang]

also ban all sheds how can you have a go at any one when you say all experts on the plumbing forum are liars rather a sweeping statement i must say so all plumbers are liars then hmm it must be said you are a bigot and that is worse than a racist

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Jeez BAS, get over it. It was a statement of fact - the chaps who put up and wired the cabin were Polish. I expect, logically, the fact that I did not read any racism into the original post does also make me a racist?

It might do.

Or it might make you the unthinking victim of the insidious desensitising which is the aim of people who write stuff like vera121.

Was it relevant? Whether it was a statement of fact or not is neither here nor there, you have to ask yourself if it was relevant to the report.

If you do think so, then please explain why. Do you think that people should be wary of builders just because they are Polish? Do you think that if this work had been done by British workers it would be OK, and not worthy of reporting here, but the fact it was done by Polish ones changes that?

If you don't think so then ask yourself, or ask vera121 directly, why he thought it was relevant. Does he think that people should be wary of builders just because they are Polish? Does he think that if this work had been done by British workers it would be OK, and not worthy of reporting here, but the fact it was done by Polish ones changes that?

There are laws in this country against racial discrimination. In other words a person's race, (or ethnicity, or country of origin) is not regarded as a valid reason for discrimination. If you are looking to fill a job vacancy you are allowed to discriminate between candidates on the basis of ability, but not on the basis of race (etc). It is illegal to do so.

In other words, it is illegal to consider a person's race (etc) as a relevant factor.

And the problem with vera121's post is that it encourages people to regard race (etc) as relevant to a situation when it is not. It desensitises. It makes people get used to including the fact of someone's race (etc) into the collection of other facts which they consider when they are reaching a judgement.

Q: What sort of person would want to encourage the consideration of race (etc) in such a way?

A: A r_ _ _ _ _.

 

[ajstoneservices]

BAS, You recently pointed out in another thread that someone had an "American Cousin" why did you do that?.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

how can any one say that as a country we are racist were letting thousands and thousands into this country . not like germany belgium and austriawhich has drastically reduced the intake of immigrants . but also as a country poland will not allow romamians into their country to work to cover the jobs that are going as the poles are over here so they are racist then ???

Oh look - someone who has been a member for only a few hours and has joined in.

I wonder who you are really?

I can tell what you are though by the way you seek to diffuse and muddy the argument, and try to make out that there's no such thing as racism, or that if some people in country A behave in a racist way that it means its OK, or not racist, for people in country B to behave in the same way towards people from A.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

also ban all sheds how can you have a go at any one when you say all experts on the plumbing forum are liars rather a sweeping statement i must say so all plumbers are liars then hmm it must be said you are a bigot and that is worse than a racist

Oh look - more distraction. Almost an ad hominem fallacy too.

My comment on the plumbers is based on what they have boasted is their actual behaviour. But then you knew that.

And you're slipping - surely by now you should be saying that you just want a reasoned debate on immigration?

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

I've lost count, over the years, of the number of times that Bas has used that old 'ad-hom' line. It seems to me that he falls back on that tired old expresssion when he is called to account for his sometimes ridiculous remarks - but he's not adverse to making insulting and deeply personal remarks against other forum members, when it takes his fancy or mood.

He's just a very angry and frustrated middle-aged chap. Such a shame, as he's clearly an intelligent man.......



Lucia.

 

[skenk]

Wrong size clips used
Cable entry to ceiling rose . . .
No labeling or notices
No sleeving of switched live

Do you really think they're coming back to replace the surface box?

Reckon there are certs for that? (well obviously not complete ones seeing as there's no supply but do you think they did the dead tests?)

 

[sparkwright]

The base of that rose is also cracked, as a result of that poor cable entry.

In the 2 way board there is a 1.0 or 1.5 with the brown and blue taped up, cpc connected.
I wonder what this is for, and who has to sort it out.

 

[electronicsuk]

Was it relevant? Whether it was a statement of fact or not is neither here nor there, you have to ask yourself if it was relevant to the report.

If you do think so, then please explain why. Do you think that people should be wary of builders just because they are Polish? Do you think that if this work had been done by British workers it would be OK, and not worthy of reporting here, but the fact it was done by Polish ones changes that?

If you don't think so then ask yourself, or ask vera121 directly, why he thought it was relevant. Does he think that people should be wary of builders just because they are Polish? Does he think that if this work had been done by British workers it would be OK, and not worthy of reporting here, but the fact it was done by Polish ones changes that?

That would depend whether or not there are a disproportionate number of Polish builders carrying out sub-standard work per head of Polish population in this country. If that is the case, I would argue it is indeed relevant.

As I don't have any real first hand experience with Polish workmanship, nor am I aware of any hard facts or figures relating to their work, it's impossible for me to qualify the above statement.

Either such figures do not exist because Polish builders have, for some reason, been incorrectly stereotyped as corner-cutting cowboys, or because we are too afraid to make such a link for fear of being branded racist by the PC brigade. Again, I do not know which of these is true.

I think that perhaps your mockups are wasted, as, to me at least, they are taking this entire discussion out of context. Presumably, rightly or wrongly, the reason the OP mentioned any nationality was because of the stigma attached to Polish builders. There is no such stigma surrounding people of black or Jewish descent, therefore it would have been irrelevant to include such information.

I wouldn't want to say that stigma or stereotypes are any justification for racism, because they aren't. However, I still do not consider the OP to be or have said anything that may be construed as racist. As we often see on this forum, everyone has different interpretations of written word and varying levels of tolerance, so I don't think we will ever be able to agree on this one.

 

[vera121]

The customer had been quoted £1500 to erect the summer house and install the electrics by, dare I say it, British builders. The Polish guys did the whole job for £600. No certs! The reason why I mentioned the nationality of the builders was probably more to do with the economical mess that were in. BAS, once again has hijacked a thread for his own personnel gain/mischief/satisfaction who knows? I put the pictures up just show poor workmanship, it is after all an electrical forum. I think its time to end this thread.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The customer had been quoted £1500 to erect the summer house and install the electrics by, dare I say it, British builders. The Polish guys did the whole job for £600. No certs!

So was the problem with that the nationality of the workers, or the fact that they weren't qualified and weren't going to work to BS 7671 and weren't going to issue a certificate?

What's the message you think people should get? Not to use unqualified people to do electrical work, or not to use Polish people?

If the customer, having balked at the £1500, had found a couple of unqualified British labourers down the pub who had agreed to do it for £600, and he'd ended up with the same result, would you have posted a topic entitled "British installation", opening with "British guys built this summer house....."?

The reason why I mentioned the nationality of the builders was probably more to do with the economical mess that were in.

I see.

And what was it you accused me of?

BAS, once again has hijacked a thread for his own personnel gain/mischief/satisfaction

 

[Spark123]

The customer had been quoted £1500 to erect the summer house and install the electrics by, dare I say it, British builders.

I have seen a lot of absolutely appalling electrical work done by British Builders too.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I think that perhaps your mockups are wasted, as, to me at least, they are taking this entire discussion out of context.

Ther are absolutely 100% in context.

If you felt uncomfortable at reading a post about black builders having done something, or Jews having done something then you should feel just as uncomfortable reading the post about Poles - there's no difference.

Presumably, rightly or wrongly, the reason the OP mentioned any nationality was because of the stigma attached to Polish builders.

So should that stigma be encouraged and perpetuated?

Should the stigma attached to the guys who put up that building be one of incompetence, or one of nationality?

There is no such stigma surrounding people of black or Jewish descent,

Not many.....

therefore it would have been irrelevant to include such information.

Even if they had been black or Jewish?

 

[electronicsuk]

I think that perhaps your mockups are wasted, as, to me at least, they are taking this entire discussion out of context.

Ther are absolutely 100% in context.

If you felt uncomfortable at reading a post about black builders having done something, or Jews having done something then you should feel just as uncomfortable reading the post about Poles - there's no difference.

I maintain that there is a difference, and ironically, by only partially quoting me, you've also taken my response out of context. See below.

Presumably, rightly or wrongly, the reason the OP mentioned any nationality was because of the stigma attached to Polish builders.

So should that stigma be encouraged and perpetuated?

Should the stigma attached to the guys who put up that building be one of incompetence, or one of nationality?

To reiterate, that would depend whether or not there genuinely are a disproportionate amount of incompetent Polish builders.

There is no such stigma surrounding people of black or Jewish descent,

Not many.....

Not with regard to the building and electrical trades, as far as I'm aware. And that is, after all, the point I was trying to make.

therefore it would have been irrelevant to include such information.

Even if they had been black or Jewish?

That would depend whether or not there were, in your hypothetical situation, a disproportionate number of incompetent black or Jewish builders. If, hypothetically speaking, there were a large number of incompetent Jewish builders in a relatively small Jewish population, then to use the phrase 'incompetent Jewish builders' would be a statement of fact and not at all racist.

If you don't interpret racism in the same way as me, fair enough, your call. However, if you feel you have the right to brand someone a racist purely because they have a different ideas to you as to what constitutes racist behaviour, then you should perhaps stop and think next time you're about to belittle someone on this forum who has chosen to brand you with a derogatory term.