Feeling electricity in water

[JohnW2]

How do you know the earth was not present when the meter mover completed the move ? Could you prove it ? That's the point i was making.

If you're talking about the case I mentioned, yes I do know. It was in the house of an elderly relative of mine. Within days of the meter move, he became ill and was hospitalised, and spent the rest of his life in hospital. After he died and we were 'sorting out his house', with a view to its sale, we discovered the absence of an earth. There was no TN earth. There was no dedicated MET - only the earth bar of an old CU (to which no main bonding conductors were connected). There was no cable leading from the earth bar which could have gone to any earth electrode (and no evidence that there has ever been one), and nor could we find any evidence of any earth electrode anywhere. Unless someone broke into his house whilst he was in hospital and removed the earthing system (and nothing else!), I think that more-or-less counts as 'proof' that there had been no earth at the time of the meter move.

Kind Regards, John

 

[deadshort]

Hi, yes your installation is protected at 30ma earth leakage current to earth. If press the test button the RCD should trip.

If there is no earth conectiom at all it will not operate as it
should.

I would suggest you check.

Regards,

DS

 

[londoniese]

Before we had wylex nhr s12sl now see picture View media item 87055

 

[JohnW2]

By asking the OP to test the RCD ?

As I implied in my recent post, I really think you should retract the dangerous advice you have given. Whilst I don't think we really have any reason to think there is anything wrong with the OP's earth, the fact that RCDs tripped in response to pressing the test button would provide no indication that a dangerous problem ('absent earth') was not present.

Kind Regards, John

 

[deadshort]

How do you know the earth was not present when the meter mover completed the move ? Could you prove it ? That's the point i was making.

If you're talking about the case I mentioned, yes I do know. It was in the house of an elderly relative of mine. Within days of the meter move, he became ill and was hospitalised, and spent the rest of his life in hospital. After he died and we were 'sorting out his house', with a view to its sale, we discovered the absence of an earth. There was no TN earth. There was no dedicated MET - only the earth bar of an old CU (to which no main bonding conductors were connected). There was no cable leading from the earth bar which could have gone to any earth electrode (and no evidence that there has ever been one), and nor could we find any evidence of any earth electrode anywhere. Unless someone broke into his house whilst he was in hospital and removed the earthing system (and nothing else!), I think that more-or-less counts as 'proof' that there had been no earth at the time of the meter move.

Kind Regards, John

That's very sad.

Kind regards,

DS

 

[JohnW2]

Hi, yes your installation is protected at 30ma earth leakage current to earth. If press the test button the RCD should trip. ... If there is no earth conectiom at all it will not operate as it should.

Please stop giving this misleading information. It could result in the OP being falsely reassured.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Hi, yes your installation is protected at 30ma earth leakage current to earth. If press the test button the RCD should trip.

True

If there is no earth conection at all it will not operate as it
should.

NOT TRUE.

I would suggest you check.

I would suggest that you, DS, check how RCDs work and stop posting misleading and wrong information.

 

[JohnW2]

Hi, yes your installation is protected at 30ma earth leakage current to earth. If press the test button the RCD should trip.

True

If there is no earth conection at all it will not operate as it should.

NOT TRUE.
I would suggest that you, DS, check how RCDs work and stop posting misleading and wrong information.

Quite so ...

If you press the test button on the RCD's x2 and they trip the power that would indicate the presence of an earth connection.

What?!!! Do you really believe that? Do you understand what the test buttons of RCDs do?

As I implied in my recent post, I really think you should retract the dangerous advice you have given. Whilst I don't think we really have any reason to think there is anything wrong with the OP's earth, the fact that RCDs tripped in response to pressing the test button would provide no indication that a dangerous problem ('absent earth') was not present.

Please stop giving this misleading information. It could result in the OP being falsely reassured.

Kind Regards, John

 

[deadshort]

Gents, just for the record are you advising the OP that the RCD should not be tested ? Are you also suggesting that if they operate it has no bearing on the situation and of so, what is the purpose of installing RCD's ?


kind regards,

DS

 

[EFLImpudence]

Gents, just for the record are you advising the OP that the RCD should not be tested ?]

Of course not.

Are you also suggesting that if they operate it has no bearing on the situation

It does not require a CPC or Earthing conductor connection for the button to work.

and of so, what is the purpose of installing RCD's ?

They are for the situation when a person becomes the earth connection.

 

[deadshort]

Gents, just for the record are you advising the OP that the RCD should not be tested ?]

Of course not.

Are you also suggesting that if they operate it has no bearing on the situation

It does not require a CPC or Earthing conductor connection for the button to work.

and of so, what is the purpose of installing RCD's ?

They are for the situation when a person becomes the earth connection.

Question 2 ?

Thanks,

DS

 

[JohnW2]

Gents, just for the record are you advising the OP that the RCD should not be tested ? Are you also suggesting that if they operate it has no bearing on the situation and of so, what is the purpose of installing RCD's ?

What we are telling you (not merely suggesting) is that pressing the test button on an RCD will (if the RCD is non-faulty) result in its tripping, regardless of any consdierations of earthing, or the absence of it.

The only exception is some RCD sockets, the test buttons of which appear to introduce an L-E leak in order to test RCD functionality. In all other cases (like the RCDs you find in CUs etc.), pressing the button connects a resistor between L on one side of the RCD and N on the other, thereby creating an L-N imbalance which causes the RCD to operate - 'earth', or 'leakage to earth' does not (and could not, in the absence of an earth/CPC connection to the RCD) have anything to do with it.

Of course householders should test RCDs (with the test button) to make sure that they function in response to an L-N imbalance, but that tells us nothing about the presence, absence or quality of an earth. In contrast, an electrician's RCD testing kit usually does introduce an L-CPC leak, and hence will fail to trip the RCD in the absence of an adequate earth.

Kind Regards, John

 

[londoniese]

Hello

Could someone tell me if my new fuse box is better than the one I had.(see post above) and if I felt electricity in water its because there was no earth at all to the ground? And lets say if water would again get in the way of a wire it would make the fuse to trip?

 

[JohnW2]

Could someone tell me if my new fuse box is better than the one I had.(see post above)

Maybe better quality, and more expensive, but as far as I can make out, the only functional difference is that your old one had RCD protection for only some of the circuits, whereas the new one probably gives RCD protection to all of them. Were you advised to have this new 'fuse box' installed because of your 'feeling electricity' problem?

... and if I felt electricity in water its because there was no earth at all to the ground?

We (at least I) still don't really understand what you mean by "no earth at all to the ground". We have not really seen/heard any true evidence that what you experienced had anything to do with an earthing problem - but, as I have said, your electrician's test would have revealed if there was any such problem.

And lets say if water would again get in the way of a wire it would make the fuse to trip?

Under some circumstances, water getting into the electrics could cause one of the RCDs to trip. If you were unlucky enough to experience a serious shock, for whatever reason, in some situations the RCD would disconnect the electricity quickly enough for the shock not to prove fatal.

Kind Regards, John

 

[londoniese]

Could someone tell me if my new fuse box is better than the one I had.(see post above)

Maybe better quality, and more expensive, but as far as I can make out, the only functional difference is that your old one had RCD protection for only some of the circuits, whereas the new one probably gives RCD protection to all of them. Were you advised to have this new 'fuse box' installed because of your 'feeling electricity' problem?

... and if I felt electricity in water its because there was no earth at all to the ground?

We (at least I) still don't really understand what you mean by "no earth at all to the ground". We have not really seen/heard any true evidence that what you experienced had anything to do with an earthing problem - but, as I have said, your electrician's test would have revealed if there was any such problem.

And lets say if water would again get in the way of a wire it would make the fuse to trip?

Under some circumstances, water getting into the electrics could cause one of the RCDs to trip. If you were unlucky enough to experience a serious shock, for whatever reason, in some situations the RCD would disconnect the electricity quickly enough for the shock not to prove fatal.

Kind Regards, John

I don't know why this one was bought may be because it will protect all the circuits.the electrician will come back to test everything again and he said tingling in water is caused by lack of earth to the ground as there always small leakage if electricity and it travels anywhere. We had cowboys builders who did a ****ty job.tbe electrician even found live wires behind switches nit fixed to the wall.