flueless gas fires

[kevindgas]

We welcome the opportunity to hear a manufacturer's views.

i would second that, i have not had a major concern over a Burley Product but as they say mud sticks to everything!
B&Q need to seriously look at their business partners not just on gas products but as a whole. they seem to have taken the pile it high sell it cheap mentallity often to the detriment of the consumer.

 

[fluelessfacts]

When other manufacturers are basing their effciency on gross, then it is only sensible and accurate to base ours on gross, hence 100%.

There catagorically is NOT less chance of a build up of CO in a room with a flue. Flues get blocked. Flueless fires have to produce <9ppm CO, flued fires can spill 200ppm! Pls look at the co gas link

http://www.co-gassafety.co.uk/stats.html

This is what frustrates me the most. FACTS prove that flueless fires are safer and far more efficient than flued fires. If all the flued fires were scrapped and replaced by flueless, many lives each year would be saved along with 23 billion kWh of gas. If flueless and flued gas fires were both invented today, flued would be immediately banned and flueless would not. Yet for no other reason than collective teeth sucking, we endlessly have to endure ignorant speculation which results in comments like, 'even so I could not bring myself to breathe close to it'. You guys are supposed to be professionals for crying out loud, with the knowledge and the training to identify and appreciate the difference between CO and CO2!

Sorry, but there you go, I knew I shouldn't have bothered commenting in the first place. I will not comment again, after 11 years of dealing with this nonesence I know what is meant by ' a lie will circle the world before the truth has got out of bed.'

 

[PE]

Is there not potentially a condensation issue with flueless fires?

As for safety wouldn't have a problem with fitting one in my house (subject to the moisture issue above)

 

[chapeau]

Yes, looked into one of these recently and it was the moisture they put out that concerned me, not the products of combustion. CH4 + 2 O2 = CO2 + 2 H2O. The science behind them is well understood.

 

[Biguns]

fluelessfacts wrote

Strangely it often seems to be older fitters who are extremely set in their ways that can't handle the new technology. Most younger fitters can see how ridiculous it is having to put a hole in the roof to let out the gasses from a heater with bad combustion, along with all the heat.

Im the one who started this furore because of my loan (swimming against the tide) support for your product.
I'm retired!

 

[PE]

Yes, looked into one of these recently and it was the moisture they put out that concerned me, not the products of combustion. CH4 + 2 O2 = CO2 + 2 H2O. The science behind them is well understood.

Apparently not according to some of the posts on thsi thread!

 

[petit_pablo]

fluelessfacts wrote

Strangely it often seems to be older fitters who are extremely set in their ways that can't handle the new technology. Most younger fitters can see how ridiculous it is having to put a hole in the roof to let out the gasses from a heater with bad combustion, along with all the heat.

Im the one who started this furore because of my support for your product.
I'm retired!

Meanwhile im 27 and of the opposite opinion!

 

[nickso]

Its a pity that some anonomous posters dont care about the truth of what they say.

oh tony, when will you lose your air of self importance and stop forgetting your own failings?

 

[namsag]

The biggest problem is it goes against everything that most are taught on ACS. And a lot on here are only central heating repairmen and struggle when it comes to fluing and flues . Mention backboiler on here and half sh#te themselves and dont even know the basic of what a bomb test is for let alone a spillage test.
So they are never going to fit a flueless appliance when they are too scared to fit an open flued one.
If you ask why they wont fit a flueless then they mention the tragic death of an innocent young girl, yet over the past year there has been more death from condensing boilers ...Are they going to stop fitting or repairing them .I very much doubt it.

Had hundreds of proper flueless heaters on contract and to be honest we never had a single incident or scare with them. .

Have not fitted a catalast fire and have only been asked once but customer changed mind, would i actually fit one .I would have to take a lot of things into consideration before making an informed choice.


Agile
i agree there is a difference between failing an ACS and not bothering to take it in the first place , the later shows a complete disregard and contempt for the industry where as the first shows at least an attempt was made to abide by the laws of the regulator

 

[nickso]

i can see both sides of the argument but wouldnt have either in my house. having an appliance that needs either a whacking great vent or an even more whacking great chimney has little appeal to me. neither does the gas bill side of it.


ive not bothered with the whole thread but everyone seems to have forgotten room sealed fires. not as easy to site as a flueless granted.

 

[Razor900]

I am also surprised you didn't put your name to the posting.

Tony Glazier

Nick Griffiths judging by his attitude in this thread

What a missed chance to put his side of the story surely it would've been worth him hanging around if he could've convinced even a couple of RGIs that HIS fires were worth fitting.

What a nobber

 

[kevindgas]

What a missed chance to put his side of the story surely it would've been worth him hanging around if he could've convinced even a couple of RGIs that HIS fires were worth fitting.

my thoughts exactly one mention of the manipulation of efficiency figures and he's off, even after i said i had no problem with Burley as a manufacturer or their products!
if you can't have a decent discussion then its sad really. i often disagree with things but will see both sides of any difference of opinion. and yes sometimes i am wrong and i've learnt a lot though this site and Argi.

 

[Agile]

I think that he might be somewhat biased !

Perhaps he will return and explain in a calm way the problem I have with that orange flamed Focal Point fire. Its not his own product after all.

Now I might be wrong but viewed from my perspective, its designed to give incomplete combustion and produce a nice friendly (?) orange flame.

To me the orange flame is likely to produce monoxide but perhaps all the ACS training we have to do on the same day our old one expires has been misleading us.

The design then relies on the catalyst to oxidise the monoxide. Thats how they seem to work !

As long as they are correctly installed and regularly serviced then that should not be any problem.

Same with knives! A knife is not dangerous in the hands of a chef but put them in the hands of a yobo and they are dangerous so they restrict selling knives because yobos might buy them.

But they dont restrict selling flueless fires to DIYers who certainly might have a go at fitting one!

Tony

 

[Biguns]

surely this

As long as they are correctly installed and regularly serviced then that should not be any problem.

And this

But they dont restrict selling flueless fires to DIYers who certainly might have a go at fitting one!

applies to any gas appliance?

 

[adlplumbing]

i have couple of question can anyone tell me how many ppm co is their on flueless gas fire if the cat fails
also
flueless gas fire 3-4kw
flueless freestanding cooker 10 - 14kw