Gas pipe sizing

[cyclonebri2]

Hmm, I get your drift but he is the guy we pay. It was only by chance I bumped into the gas guy, when he was laying the gas main and doing 1st plumbing fix.

I can only address this through the main contracter, hence the advice required??

 

[cyclonebri2]

Simply ask the builder to confirm how he intends his PLUMBER to achieve a max 1mb pressure loss. If you get no coherent reply then they should not be doing the work. No way by my calculation will that pipework be adequate.
I apprciate you are going via a builder but still doesn't mean you cannot question him as to how this pipe sizing has been worked out.

Thats exacly what we are doing at present. Thank you for an intelligent reply.

The brickky has a plumber mate that i talked it over with today and he said exactly the same thing, just adequte for the current boiler alone, but no way for the boiler +fire + upgrades,

 

[doitall]

Look at what I said again. I think the builder has given duff info to the plummer, hence his pipe sizing. Does that make the plummer a cowboy? I don't think so. But It does give an issue I WILL SORT OUT

You keep avoiding this.

Whatever information the builder gives to the plumber is irrelevant, as far as the gas is concerned.

It is the plumbers responsibility to install the correct size pipe, not the builder.

I also think you are being a bit short sighted over the paperwork, the end of the job, and you have to rip it all out again because it has been installed by a cowboy is not the time to find out.

 

[cyclonebri2]

Read the 1st post again. This is to avoid having to do it all again. I have stopped the work on the pipework and plastering

 

[cyclonebri2]

KEVPLUM, this one is for you, I looked back to the forum homepage, just incase I had logged in to the planet Zzarke. The mission statement reads something like this;

"DIY can be both challenging and rewarding - this is where DIYnot.com aims to help. Our expert teams have brought together hundreds of information pages. Why not Do It Yourself?"


Now, this is not a diy topic, but it does ask advice off so called experts as your self.

I'm disgusted in your replies.

I think you are adding additional negative publicity to what is often a malighned proffesion. Your attitude reinforces this. You should be standing up for the abilities of your fellows, not suggesting they don't know what they are doing.

Yours trully disgusted

 

[kevplumb]

So, the plumber has relaid a 22mm main that now has to supply a 35/38kw boiler and the 5kw gas fire. The gas feed to the hob is no longer required, but there will be a take off a metre or so along the run for a 2nd gas fire.

I think you are adding additional negative publicity to what is often a malighned proffesion. Your attitude reinforces this. You should be standing up for the abilities of your fellows, not suggesting they don't know what they are doing.

and as i am sure some of the regulars will tell you i do stand up for the trade

however letting some numpty loose on a gas supply that clearly cannot do a simple calculation is not one of those times
as the pratt clearly dosen't know what he is doing

if keeping clowns like that out of the trade is negative publicity then so be it

 

[doitall]

Read the 1st post again. This is to avoid having to do it all again. I have stopped the work on the pipework and plastering icon_rolleyes.gif

You also said

No, I did not check his card. But at the end of the day he has to certify the installation? If he isn't qualified he won't be able too,

But you won't fine that out until the job is finished unless you check now.

 

[cyclonebri2]

Get a grip and read from the top.
My suggestion is that the plumber is not aware of the loading, backtrack if you don't get it.

you still appear as a total ***** and a negative on the integrety of genuine plumber/gas engineers

Calling one of your fellow professionals a numpty won't get you too far

 

[kevplumb]

Hi, can anyone help difuse a potential problem with our contracter/plumber?

As basically as possible we are renovating a fairly good sized house. The builders ripped out an existing 28mm gas main that ran 8 metrs through the property.

It supplied a 100btu CHB and tee'd off to feed a 5kw gas fire and an unknown load for a kitchen gas hob.

So, the plumber has relaid a 22mm main that now has to supply a 35/38kw boiler and the 5kw gas fire. The gas feed to the hob is no longer required, but there will be a take off a metre or so along the run for a 2nd gas fire.

Hope thats clear. Is the 22mm pipe good enough for this load????

Need to acy quickly before the whole lot gets boxed and plastered,

Cheers.

My suggestion is that the plumber is not aware of the loading

not what you said

add to that you don't pull a 28mm run out unless you either replace it with the same or are increasing the size

as for what you think

if you had THOUGHT in the first place you would be asking advice BEFORE you started

not trying to be clever afterwards

 

[davebgas]

Best way I can see this being resolved is to just have a word with the gas fitter and raise what are genuine concerns. Ask him to explain his rationale for suggesting the pipe sizing. There may be something we are all overlooking that the lad on site has noticed and therefore it's all ok. Any reputable engineering will happily explain things and show a gas safe card. Anyone who doesn't should then be judged as suspect.
I appreciate the builder is reputable and do not intend to say to the contray but be aware it's all about cost. 28mm is quite a bit more than 22mm and if the builder thinks he can get away twisting his plumbers arm he will. Most likely the plumber does alot of work for him and doesn't want to risk upsetting. Also be aware, this plumber may not have his ACS and is therefore none the wiser of pipe sizing for gas and just assumes 22mm will be ok.
As said the only way of knowing is to engage him in friendly conversation and even to show calculations.

 

[bengasman]

Look at what I said again. I think the builder has given duff info to the plummer, hence his pipe sizing. Does that make the plummer a cowboy? I don't think so.

But it does. Several people have already mentioned that the installer is the one and only, solely responsible person for everything related to gas. The builder is not a gas engineer, and as far as the installer should be concerned, he knows no more than you do.
He should know full well that it is up to him to ascertain what is needed. If he has failed to do so, he is a cowboy.

 

[bengasman]

Thanks for that, he he a corgi reg guy, methinks the builder has not given him the full SP

Let me guess: he did not show you a corgi card that confirmed this man is currently legal to work on gas boilers.

No, I did not check his card. But at the end of the day he has to certify the installation? If he isn't qualified he won't be able too,

An estimated 250,000 jobs a year a done that way.

The problem here is that no one accepts that is probably a genuine mistake, that amazes me, stand up Mr Perfect

When it comes to gaspipe sizing, I can stand up as mr Perfect; not one single boiler that I install has an undersized supply.
Running a 50 kW demand in 22 mm is not a mistake; it is a crystal clear demonstration of either absolutely not caring, or just not having a clue.

 

[Bendo]

Bloody hell, you are getting FREE advice and have been told numerous times it's wrong and to talk to the plumer, buy you just don't get it?

 

[Biggles..]

what are you all moaning about,the guy is actually connecting a 25KW boiler not a 38, at presant the pipe hes putting in will/could be(and i havent worked it all out) be ok.

If he doesnt know that the boiler is going to change to a 38 and another fire is being added its a bit early for a hanging and you guys calling him a cowboy.

 

[cyclonebri2]

what are you all moaning about,the guy is actually connecting a 25KW boiler not a 38, at presant the pipe hes putting in will/could be(and i havent worked it all out) be ok.

If he doesnt know that the boiler is going to change to a 38 and another fire is being added its a bit early for a hanging and you guys calling him a cowboy.

Well at least someone has actually taken the trouble to read the detail I gave, thanks Lgcs.

I know from my ltd knowledge thst the feed was borderline as it stands.

At least you seem to have grasped the fact that the plumber did not see the original pipe, only the 28mm stub off the meter, the builders had ripped it out along with the tee to the existing fire, and also cut back into the final 22mm leg into the boiler.

If the builder has not involved him he has probably asumed, (ok maybe he shouldn't have), there is only the existing boiler to consider. It's all irrelevant anyway. The guy who's running the job new what had been taken out, what load was required in addition to the boiler and also of the plan to uprate the boiler when funds allow.

We did incidently contact a plumber the bricky knows, he worked out the size over the phone as we detailed it, he says the 22mm is "just" suffient, but for the boiler only.

It's what I thought and not acceptable and kevplum will not cost me any money.

Thanks again Lgcs, for recognising the idiocy of some posters on here, there never was a need to hang draw and quarter the plumber