Hours to warm living room up! Arrggg!

[rocky_robin]

This is our first winter in our new (1890's) house and my lord its cold!

My wife stuck the heating on at 12.30pm (living room = 12.5 degC) and it never reached 20 degC till 19.30pm!!!!!!
All other rooms were cosy, but the living room took ages.
Even worse is the kitchen. It started at 8 degC and only reached 15.6 degC!

All thermostats fitted to each radiator and all rads are sized to the rooms. The living room has 2 rads and is approx 5m x 5m x 2.4m high.
The rads are always roasting hot, but still the heat just disappears!

The living room is the heart of the house, as all other rooms lead off and the stairs leads into the room.

The room is mostly insulated on the walls, bar the walls that didn't require new plasterboard.

The house is 1.5 stories, where the upper 2 bedrooms are in the pitched roof area. Therefore I have got the 50mm ventalation gap below the tiles and I can't insulate them without reducing the size of the rooms.

Any words of wisdom to improve this mess?

Oh, it's double glazing all round the house too.

 

[Diyisfun]

Im just in the proccess of putting a bllon in my chimney, do you have an open chimney?

 

[rocky_robin]

We have a stove in the living room, but it has the glass door at the front so is sealed.
I even keep the fire all ready to light, so it stops heat escaping up the vents. That fire place was my first suspect!

 

[amyboo]

Why were your rooms so cold to start with? It's far more economical on the heating bills to keep rooms at a higher temperature permanently... I only let my heating go down to 17oC overnight, and 18oC in the day. The heating cuts in every morning and evening to take the temperature up to 20.5oC.

I live in a 1930s corner building appartment (1st floor of 3) with no external insulation - so my walls can be very cold to the touch at this time of year. My radiators however, are ancient cast iron things (4 bar ones) that chuck heat out quite efficiently despite being in alcoves under the windows. Are your radiators definitely adequate for the room?

I also found that filling in gaps around windows, redoing the silicon beading at the bottom of the windows, decent curtains, insulating brushes under the back and front door, and a new thermostat helped in my house....

 

[Ltnman]

Why were your rooms so cold to start with? It's far more economical on the heating bills to keep rooms at a higher temperature permanently

I very much doubt the economics of your argument.

No insulation in the roof space, high ceilings, solid walls and floor boards. It has got to be a recipe for high fuel bills and cold living.

 

[rocky_robin]

The lack of insulation in the kitchen is what I suspect.
Also as last night was very calm in terms of the wind, the difference in both room was remarkable!
Draughts is definatly taking away my heat.

Certainly throught the extractor fan (blocked up with carrier bags when not in use) and I guees the movement behind the plasterboard is taking away some of the heat (just like a fridge).

I spoke to the Energy Trust yesterday and they put me on to the NIA.

http://www.nationalinsulationassociation.org.uk/housholder/householder-nia.html

There is a company that sells a neat Lycra 'wallpaper' that has been tested to insulate the same as filling a cavity wall. It's been developed exactly for my type of house. I'm already on their case for prices (dreading it!)

 

[namsag]

Its really simple ,your rads are getting piping hot and the room is not getting hot .That means the rads are not the correct size to get heat into the building how its designed .
So bigger rads required so the room can get heated to proper temp

 

[htgeng]

The lack of insulation in the kitchen is what I suspect.

There is a company that sells a neat Lycra 'wallpaper' that has been tested to insulate the same as filling a cavity wall. It's been developed exactly for my type of house. I'm already on their case for prices (dreading it!)

Don't waste your money. The only way you'll really reduce heat loss is with either high density rockwoll or foam type insulation on the walls/ ceilings. I'm afraid it will mean losing some of the room space. But if thats what it takes would you rather be warmer?

 

[JohnD]

tell us the size of the rooms (incl height) and of the rads please

also which are external walls, and is it a draughty wooden floor, and what the doors and windows are like, and do you keep the internal doors shut while heating is on.

 

[bigbow]

The rads may have been sized for the room but was the heat loss for the room also included in the calculation??? and has the boiler also been sized for the heating systenm correctly?? another double panel rad should help, providing the boiler is big enough for the additon of rads

 

[bengasman]

My wife stuck the heating on at 12.30pm (living room = 12.5 degC) and it never reached 20 degC till 19.30pm!!!!!!
All other rooms were cosy, but the living room took ages.
Even worse is the kitchen. It started at 8 degC and only reached 15.6 degC!

All thermostats fitted to each radiator and all rads are sized to the rooms. The living room has 2 rads and is approx 5m x 5m x 2.4m high.
The rads are always roasting hot, but still the heat just disappears!

rads are not calculated to the room, but to the HEATLOSS of that room.
clearly not done accurately in your case.
either put in more/bigger rads or reduce heatloss. biggest heatloss component is usually draft.

 

[bengasman]

forgot to ask, is the middle of the rad at the bottom between the valves also very hot?

 

[rocky_robin]

Thanks a million for willing to help me out!!!

I've quickly drawn up the living room on CAD, as it's not just a plain rectangular room.

View media item 6811

The room is 2400mm high and has Double radiators.

The stairs is open to the living room, which goes up with the pitch of the roof of the house meets the floor of the crawl space loft. That stairs lead to the upstairs bedrooms via a small landing, which is just above the below stairs cupboard on the above sketch.

The height of the landing to the roof is 2300mm and is 950mm wide.



Now, the kitchen. It's been an extension many years ago.

I don't have a drawing but will give you the sizes.
It's 3800mm long x 2000mm wide (wall to wall).
The roof is pitched, so it's 1650mm high from the floor to the lowest part of the pitched roof and 2750mm high from the floor to the highest part of the roof.
It contains just 1 rad, 600mm x 600mm (Double rad but only 1 set of internal fins - Screwfix calls it the Single Radiator Plus)
There is no room for any more rads, other than going for underfloor heating, meaning excavation!

It has a door leading to the un-heated porch, but it's a nice outside type door with double glazing)
It has 2 Velux windows (910 x 720) and a long window (1480mm long x 560mm high)


Side on elevation to the house looks like this:

View media item 6812

The radiators seem to be hot all over.

 

[bengasman]

600 x 600 and not even a proper double??? and i thought you said the rads were calculated.
i would use a 1200 x 600 for a lounge in this type of house without worry that it is too big.
equally big heat issue is the draft, unless you double the normal size of the rads, you can't heat against it.

your fire still sounds suspicious; as all fires need ventilation there may be ample provision for fresh air to come in. neat and cozy as fires may be, you tend to pay a high price for them in terms of draft and heat loss.

finally, insulation is always good. not only does it safe you money, it dampens the hot-cold variations making the house more comfortable that way

 

[JohnD]

The stairs is open to the living room

Therefore the heat that you pour into the living room will all gush up the stairs to the top of the house.

No wonder you can't get it warm.

You are trying to heat a large hall, not a living room.

And, by eye, your rads are far too small.