Is IP45 fan ok for bathroom Zone 1?

[ZACCCC]

I'm not an electrician but I'm looking for advice on buying a bathroom fan. I've decided on the Silent 100CZ, which is made by Soler & Palau. But they do two models of the 100CZ, which is why I need advice. The first is rated IP45 (from which I understand it can be sited in the shower area) and the second has a transformer (which will be sited in the loft) and this one is rated IP57 and is about £40 dearer. Obviously I'm trying to keep the costs down so I'm wondering why anyone would go for the second one when, as I understand it, the first one can be sited in Zone 1 without any safety issues.

By the way, I'm going to get a qualified electrician to wire up for me as I understand I will need a Part P certificate from him.

By the way, also, does anyone have any views on the effectiveness or otherwise of fans with a plate in front of them compared to the ones where the grill is open and the air is sucked straight in.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

//www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:bathroom_zones
Reading the above information, will help you decided what appliance is suitable.

 

[ZACCCC]

Thanks PrenticeBoyofDerry.

 

[SFK]

Zacccc,
I have the "AIRFLOW QT100T" which is also IP45. It was fitted when bathroom fitters realised that existing fan hole through wall was just in Zone 1. From my personal limited experience I will try and answer your questions.

1) Mains or Transformer.
Although my fan is rated as IP45 I would not feel comfortable to have the mains version in a truly wet area such as in a shower cubical. The mains cables are not that well protected and I could imagine a good jet of shower water will flood it (mine is 240V but it is located a long way above and at the very end of the bath (ie the very top corner of Zone1)). If had to have a fan in Zone 1 shower area I would request to have a transformer type fitted just to feel more comfortable. But remember that transformer can fail so transformer needs to be accessible (through hole in which fan is placed??).

Then again personally I would not have a Fan of any type in the Zone 1 area of a Shower (or Shower-bath) area, and would instead try and have the Fan overhead in the ceiling.

2) Front Panel or Front Grill fan.
I have not see any air extraction difference between the new Front Panel fan that replaced my previous Front Grill fan. The Front Grill fan did collect and show the dust on the front grills. The Front Panel fan looks nicer from the front, but does look a bit ugly when seen from the side or underneath.

The recommendation is that to get most steam out of bathroom then:
1) Fan should be high,
2) Fan should be furthest point from Air entry point, with steam creation point (shower) being being in the middle between these two points, and
3) Air entry point (under bathroom door??) should be as big as the fan.

It should be noted that as an exiting hole in the wall was re-used my fan is located furtherest point from shower, and there is little airflow into my bathroom (the door seals well). So I break all the rules and my fan does little to remove the air. :<

I hope this makes sense and is useful, SFK

 

[ZACCCC]

Thanks for your views SFK.

The details you give suggest that your fan is sited in a very similar position to where I intend to site mine. Although my bathroom is tiny the ceiling is quite high. There is no shower cubicle. The shower head is at one end of the bath and I am proposing to put the fan outlet in the wall, high up at the other end. Here, the bottom end of the fan will be 2.3m from the floor of the bath and about 1.1m from the shower head - so only just in Zone 1, I think.

According to the fan's spec it should be powerful enough (and more) for my bathroom so it was encouraging to hear that you didn't find the panel fan any less effective than the grill fan.

I was aware that a fan should be sited at the furthest point from the air entry point to the bathroom but in spite of this I intend to site my fan right opposite the door. This is because over the years this is this corner of the ceiling that has eroded because of the condensation, whereas the corner of the ceiling furthest from the door shows no deterioration whatsoever. So I don't think it would be advisable to put the fan there and then still find I still had a condensation problem in the other corner.

After all your good and welcome advice, SFK, I was a bit puzzled to read "It should be noted that as an exiting hole in the wall was re-used my fan is located furtherest point from shower, and there is little airflow into my bathroom (the door seals well). So I break all the rules and my fan does little to remove the air. :<". I'm thinking 'Why don't you plane a bit off the bottom of the door'. Although if you don't have any condensation problems then I guess it's not a problem.

Appreciate your advice. Thank you again.

 

[SFK]

Dear Zacc,
Fortunately I have no damp issues, rooms is warm and we leave shower door and bathroom door open to aid air movement after long showers.

The plaining a bit off the the bottom of the door would not work for me. The fan is above window, and next to door. So new (dry air) would move from bottom of door, up 2 meters, slightly left and then straight off out through fan. Opening window is worse as air comes through window, up one foot and then straight off out through fan.

My shower is a glass box design at furthest point from Door, Window and the fan. I believe I should have an extractor fan directly above shower, then a slowly dropping pipe above bathroom ceiling and out under roof eves.

But this was not a new bathroom exercise as I simply had a new fan fitted and when it was noted that old fan was in Zone 1 and had mains provided, then the mains IP45 fan was fitted.

I did not see any difference in front faced fan, but it shoudl be noted that my new fan was a much better product than the one it was replacing (should be at £65)
Best part is that new fan is quiet and I love that when go for a quick toilet break in middle of night the fan does not not start up (unless light on for more than a few minutes).

Good luck on reducing condensation,
SFK

 

[ZACCCC]

Cheers SFK. Glad to hear you don't have any damp issues and your bathroom is warm. Very desirable at this time of year!

Thanks again.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Although my fan is rated as IP45 I would not feel comfortable to have the mains version in a truly wet area such as in a shower cubical.

Then you are worrying unnecessarily.

Do you have an electric shower?

 

[ZACCCC]

Thanks for your input EFLImpudence. When you say "you are worrying unnecessarily", would it matter that my house was rewired almost 31 years ago?

 

[SFK]

Dear EFLImpudence,
You are quite right that I am worrying unnecessary as it is IP45 rated.

But after seeing the inside of the fan having (what I consider) limited water proofing and seeing images like this:
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=231459
then my (completely personal) preference would be to not have a mains fan if it is in Zone 1 of a shower area.

I don't have electric shower, but I do realise the hypocrisy of my above comment when I do use them. :>

Regards SFK

 

[EFLImpudence]

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Thanks for your input EFLImpudence. When you say "you are worrying unnecessarily", would it matter that my house was rewired almost 31 years ago?

It does not matter that the installation is 31 years old providing it is still safe for continued use, which would be something that needs to be proved, rather than someone okaying it on a forum.

You will need to follow the manufacturers instruction and comply to various building regulations where applicable.

 

[ZACCCC]

Ok, thanks mate.

 

[ericmark]

You have received some good advice there is a thank you button you can use. I will not repeat what the others have said no point but will point out the whole idea of air flow. My mothers house built 1954 has air vents most with sliding metal grills to allow air flow in the house. It was build in the days of solid fuel fires and unless the fire could draw combustion air local to the fire it would produce huge drafts throughout the house. Closing a vent by the fire increased the draft it did not reduce it.

Modern house with balanced flue central heating draws the air for combustion from outside so there are far less vents provided. Even high quality wood burning stoves have piped combustion air from outside. But lower quality fires can still have what is called an open flue. Open flue does not mean it is really open but the fire draws air from within the room.

So two points.
1) If the replacement air from outside is close to the fan then it will reduce drafts in rest of house. Drawing replacement air from under door is not really a good method there should be a vent to outside. This does raise the method of control Ideal is a button you press on leaving so cold drafts only after you leave the room not while taking a shower.

2) More serious is any devices which blow air outside be it bathroom fan, tumble drier, or cooker hood can cause a depression in the house and draw fumes into the house from any open flue.

I have a gas fire in main room originally designed open plan house before central heating fitted this one fire heated whole house. Now doors between main room and dinning room and dinning room and kitchen plus kitchen extended. With Velox window vents open in kitchen using tumble drier is no problem. Close them and with tumble drier on if we light main gas fire you can smell the fumes. Clearly it sucks through two doors. Once fire and flue is hot smell goes away but it points out the problem.

There should have been a vent to outside by the gas fire but it's on an adjoining wall so would have needed a duct fitting before the floor was laid clearly this did not happen.

For bathroom we use education after a shower we open window on visiting loo next we close it. I have thought of automatic system to close the window after set time. Pulley two buckets with small hole so bucket on pulley slowly fills from other bucket when near full closes window. Great except for one problem. Wife won't let me.

 

[ZACCCC]

Cheers, eric for that info, although not sure I quite grasped it all. My house was built around 1930 so that's well before CH was commonplace. I have a gas fire in my living room. I've never had any windows open when I've used the tumble dryer but can't say I've smelt any fumes.

I'm not sure what you mean about having a vent to outside in the bathroom. My bathroom has only one outside wall, which is where the fan will be sited (or in the ceiling near that wall) so I couldn't have a vent to outside I don't think.

Btw, your wife sounds like a wise woman!