we all know the answer to that one,
True, but the question is who should pay for the shifting of the boiler or the flue now?
Neighbours boiler safety becasue of my new build.
- Thread starter tiffin
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True, but the question is who should pay for the shifting of the boiler or the flue now?
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not the op
anyway he hasn't got a problem at the moment, his neighbour has with his non compliant flue that is sited to close to a boundary
unless you think the op has deliberately moved the boundary somehow???
exactly, if it went to court the neighbour hasn't got a leg to stand on, the boiler hasn't been fitted according to the MI & the HSE & gas safe will say exactly the same thing, therefore it is the neighbours prob not the OP they have every right to build upto their boundary they are not governed by an installer that doesn't know the regs or can't follow the MI, rules & regs are there for a reason & the OP cannot be held responsible for a faulty install, whatever you think
Funny how we can confuse the intent of the regulations. I don’t see reg 34 has any bearing in this issue as raised by the op.
It does bear on the owner of the adjoining property not to permit the appliance to be used however, once they have been made aware of the safety concern.
34 (1) – (2)
(1) The responsible person for any premises shall not use a gas appliance or permit a gas appliance to be used if at any time he knows or has reason to suspect that it cannot be used without constituting a danger to any person.
(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1) above, the responsible person means the occupier of the premises, the owner of the premises and any person with authority for the time being to take appropriate action in relation to any gas fitting therein.
Reg 8 does however give rise to a general duty in respect to alteration of a building but only the one in which the appliance is installed.
8 (1) No person shall make any alteration to any premises in which a gas fitting or gas storage vessel is fitted if that alteration would adversely affect the safety of the fitting or vessel in such a manner that, if the fitting or the vessel had been installed after the alteration, there would have been a contravention of, or failure to comply with, these Regulations.
The guidance to8 (1)to which there is a lot also offers.
87 Regulation 8(1) applies only to the alteration of premises in which the gas appliance concerned is installed, ie it does not cover any alteration to adjoining premises. Gas appliances/storage vessels should be installed so that safety cannot be affected by any future developments, eg building extensions, on adjoining property. For example, a flue should be located at a safe distance from any site boundary, so that in event of any development on a neighbouring site (which could extend up to the boundary), the flue will continue to operate properly and discharge of combustion products will not present a hazard to any person (see regulation 27 and Appendix 1).
Given the these particular regulations I believe the op has fully complied with the “rules” within any reasonable interpretation of them.
It does bear on the owner of the adjoining property not to permit the appliance to be used however, once they have been made aware of the safety concern.
34 (1) – (2)
(1) The responsible person for any premises shall not use a gas appliance or permit a gas appliance to be used if at any time he knows or has reason to suspect that it cannot be used without constituting a danger to any person.
(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1) above, the responsible person means the occupier of the premises, the owner of the premises and any person with authority for the time being to take appropriate action in relation to any gas fitting therein.
Reg 8 does however give rise to a general duty in respect to alteration of a building but only the one in which the appliance is installed.
8 (1) No person shall make any alteration to any premises in which a gas fitting or gas storage vessel is fitted if that alteration would adversely affect the safety of the fitting or vessel in such a manner that, if the fitting or the vessel had been installed after the alteration, there would have been a contravention of, or failure to comply with, these Regulations.
The guidance to8 (1)to which there is a lot also offers.
87 Regulation 8(1) applies only to the alteration of premises in which the gas appliance concerned is installed, ie it does not cover any alteration to adjoining premises. Gas appliances/storage vessels should be installed so that safety cannot be affected by any future developments, eg building extensions, on adjoining property. For example, a flue should be located at a safe distance from any site boundary, so that in event of any development on a neighbouring site (which could extend up to the boundary), the flue will continue to operate properly and discharge of combustion products will not present a hazard to any person (see regulation 27 and Appendix 1).
Given the these particular regulations I believe the op has fully complied with the “rules” within any reasonable interpretation of them.
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The op may find the following link useful for a downloadable copy of the gas regs.
link >> http://www.hseni.gov.uk/l56_safety_in_the_installation_and_use_of_gas_systems_and_appliances.pdf
link >> http://www.hseni.gov.uk/l56_safety_in_the_installation_and_use_of_gas_systems_and_appliances.pdf
According to gassafe both parties are in the wrong. It's a building and safety issue, so would become a legal issue.
A. the flue shouldn't have been installed where it is.
B. the porch shouldn't have been built until the boiler was moved.
A. the flue shouldn't have been installed where it is.
B. the porch shouldn't have been built until the boiler was moved.
Under the above regulation, I exercised my responsibility, and used common sense when I discovered to my horror that my WAU, which had always been serviced regularly, then suffered from serious malfunction and overheated, (not implying this happened because of regular servicing!) and therefore until it is repaired or serviced, and the cause of the overheat is investigated, the appliance cannot be brought into use any further, as it is deemed to be defective and dangerous, I therefore switched it off by tearing the mains plug off the wire, turned the gas off at the meter and as well as at the appliance local gas stop cock, so that the appliance could not be used by the tenant. I also called a RGI to cap off the Gas meter for a further legal obligation and issue a warning Notice for the purpose of satisfying the landlord's mandatory safety record.
Then all hell broke loose, I then received a warning letter from my lettings agent that by doing so I have committed a serious criminal offence! under the Housing Act 1985! By not being able to provide my dwelling with a space heating!
this is when I had to buy 3 fan heaters each 2Kw and gave it to my tenant and also agreed to subsidies charges for electricity!
I think people have lost common sense!
What a shame! there isn't a Road Traffic Act that can criminalise the Highways Agency when they close sections upon sections of roads and Motorways, all coned off with no one being seen working on them flat out! yup you guessed it, it is easier to criminalise individuals!
i don't agree with this at all, what would have happened if the neighbour said no i'm not going to move the boiler or alter the flue was the OP then just going to have to give up on their plans, that is madness, the easiest way is to fit a plume kit if it's possible & angle it the way of the prevailing wind, but it still doesn't alter the fact the flue was incorrectly installed & if i was the neighbour i would be getting the installer back to alter the flue at his/her own cost
He should have given the neighbour notification to move the flue, and if that didn't work take it to Court.
in building the porch he has committed a offence. Just saying ferk it and putting lives at risk is not how you do things.
If I park across you drive you going to just try and bash it out of the way so you can get out.
it's not about common sense it's about rules, regs & not being up in court with a manslaughter charge over your head, if the WAU was deemed ID then the gas supply could have been capped to that & the rest of the supply could have been left working, there was no need to rip off the plug or cap the meter, if it was deemed AR then the appliance just gets switched off (this could be as simply as removing the plug or turning off it's isolation gas tap) with a warning notice telling the user not to use it until it's repaired
doitall, i can see what you are saying however the OP isn't expected to know the rules in place, they didn't know at the time the flue was too close & i would argue this all day long in court, they gave the neighbours a letter of their intent & it was their responsibility to make sure everything on their side was ok for this to be built inc the boiler flue, i'm presuming that someone from BC came out to make sure it could be done under PD & they should have noticed the flue, we all have to take responsibility for our own actions you can't be held responsible for those of your neighbours, the installer is totally at fault here & the neighbours should be taking it up with them not the OP, people employ us for our knowledge of the rules & regs & this is one case when the neighbours have been let down by their installer which in turn has effected the OP which it never have should done.
& to answer your question i have a dropped curb so yes your car would be in a totally different place than you left it
Ignorance is not a defense in a Court of Law.
Gassafe said both parties are in the wrong, and that dear friend is good enough for me, and is in line with what I said.
However mr porch is the only one that could get done for manslaughter.
Ps, would love to see you trying to move my car, what do you drive a JCB.
Gassafe said both parties are in the wrong, and that dear friend is good enough for me, and is in line with what I said.
However mr porch is the only one that could get done for manslaughter.
Ps, would love to see you trying to move my car, what do you drive a JCB.
Ignorance is not a defense in a Court of Law.
Gassafe said both parties are in the wrong, and that dear friend is good enough for me, and is in line with what I said.
However mr porch is the only one that could get done for manslaughter.
Ps, would love to see you trying to move my car, what do you drive a JCB.
that is very true but who does the ignorance come down to ? the OP, the neighbour, BC, the installer ? it's abit like a car accident it's always the person behind that gets the blame even if the muppet in front slams on their brakes for no reason, had the porch always been there would the flue be exactly the same who knows, alot of people when faced with a bill for hundreds for moving a flue because their neighbours want to build something would just say s0d it i'm not paying it wasn't there when the boiler was fitted & then what are you to do, you can't force your neighbour to move it (others can ie HSE, gassafe, the court) but the homeowner can't.
no just a very heavy van
Planning and Building Control are two different things. I doubt very much if the Planning Officer even bothered to visit the site, let alone ask for advice from Building Control.
As far as Planning is concerned, a porch is Permitted Development, so Planning Permission is not required, provided three conditions are met:
1. the ground floor area (measured externally) would not exceed three square metres.
2. no part would be more than three metres above ground level (height needs to be measured in the same way as for a house extension).
3. no part of the porch would be within two metres of any boundary of the dwellinghouse and the highway.
That doesn't mean that the porch is not required to meet Building Regulations; but that's a completely different matter and the OP should have sought advice from Building Control; though whether they would have picked up a problem with the flue is debatable.
Note that the distance from a boundary with a neighbour is not mentioned. That implies that you can build right up to your boundary; it is the neighbour's responsibility to ensure that his flue is so located that you can build up to your boundary.
I'm not sure what Law the OP has broken; maybe DIA will enlighten us.
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