New D/G window leaking

[Roger465]

I had some new windows fitted by a local company about a year ago. One of the frames has been badly fitted, in my opinion, as the two big mullions going from top to bottom are noticeably bowed inwards towards the room.

I tried to chase them at the time, but was ignored. Unfortunately, my mental health is poor, and the thought of a major confrontation (especially as the proprietor is somebody I had considered to be a friend) made me so ill that I have up phoning, then kept putting it off, telling myself nobody else noticed it, so although clearly wrong, it wasn’t the end of the world.

However, today, after several days of storms here, I can see water is starting to come through – whether as a result of the warped frame or not, I don't know.

I'm not going to let it go this time, but my depression is pretty bad right now, so it’s going to be very difficult for me. What I want to know from the excellent folks on here is whether a leak like this is at all common on new windows, if it indicates poor quality frames, or is likely to be the result of the warping or not?

In other words, is the only solution to replace the whole unit? I see me ending up in court with them over this, but want to know how the land lies before talking to solicitors etc.

Any advice very gratefully received.

PS I’ve tried to photograph the warping, but it doesn't show up well on the camera. If I put a metre straight edge up the mullion, you can see a gap of a few mm (where the red arrow points).

 

[cross thread]

Contact FENSA your window should have been reg with them.

 

[Notch7]

I'm not going to let it go this time, but my depression is pretty bad right now, so it’s going to be very difficult for me. What I want to know from the excellent folks on here is whether a leak like this is at all common on new windows, if it indicates poor quality frames, or is likely to be the result of the warping or not

Im guessing it’s upvc not timber?

What is the window configuration: double, triple with or without sidelights

the openers (or are they fixed) that fit against the bowed millions - are they side hung and if so is hinge or lock against the mullion

 

[Roger465]

Contact FENSA your window should have been reg with them.

Sadly, they only cover England and Wales - I'm in NI

Im guessing it’s upvc not timber?

What is the window configuration: double, triple with or without sidelights

the openers (or are they fixed) that fit against the bowed millions - are they side hung and if so is hinge or lock against the mullion

UPVC, yes. I'll attach a photo of the window, but the only opening bits are little ones at the top, and the mullions are I think evenly bowed from top to bottom.

Curved mullions in red.

 

[crank39]

Contact FENSA your window should have been reg with them.

FENSA don't get involed with disputes or workmanship issues, they are purely a self certification scheme ensuring the installation meets current building regs

 

[ronniecabers]

The bowing is easily provable in that if you put a level on it it will rock on the bulge point.
As goes the leak, where's it actually leaking ? Or rather where's it showing the water in the house. Can you see any visible gaps between the rubber seal and the glass, either inside or out.
Was the weather blowing the rain against this particular window?

 

[Roger465]

The bowing is easily provable in that if you put a level on it it will rock on the bulge point.
As goes the leak, where's it actually leaking ? Or rather where's it showing the water in the house. Can you see any visible gaps between the rubber seal and the glass, either inside or out.
Was the weather blowing the rain against this particular window?

Yes, it does rock - the photo doesn't show it particularly well, but it comes away from the mullion at the top, while contacting the bottom below the bulge. Again, the photo isn't brilliant, but the water is lying on the windowsill below the mullion. There are some drops of water on the bottom of the mullion above the little puddle, but I can't tell if they're coming from that welded joint, or the corner of the glass panel. Can't see a gap.

I've dried it now, and the rain is on and off, so maybe I'll be able to see where it comes through. But I think I'm going to have to get a solicitor onto the case anyway, as it's never been right, and the guy has been ignoring me.

Yes, the prevailing weather is always against that window.

 

[ronniecabers]

The bowing is definitely not right ... the leaking could be down to a pressure build up within the frame, and due to high winds its forcing the water out through the bottom internal seal....obviously this would only be the case in high winds and driving rain though

 

[Roger465]

The bowing is definitely not right ... the leaking could be down to a pressure build up within the frame, and due to high winds its forcing the water out through the bottom internal seal....obviously this would only be the case in high winds and driving rain though

It's been monsoon season here for the last couple of days but modern d/g should cope!

 

[ronniecabers]

Oh I'm not saying it's right lol...just trying to ascertain weather conditions and explain why it may be leaking... years ago with one manufacturer we had this and had to pressure equalise the frame.. company we use now we have no issues as they have dealt with it already

 

[crank39]

Is th water dripping out of the V in the weld or coming on our from the glazing bead, if glazing bead then that would suggest water getting past the external gasket which isn't necessary a big issue as the drainage slots in the frame should easily cope with the thimble of water that builds up, maybe drainage slots have been forgotten to be drilled in, would need to remove the glass to find out though. If it's coming through the weld then that's more serious as water is getting into the hollow chamber of the pvc section, this could be the result of the drainage slots, maybe they've been drilled from the top but haven't been joined up with the drilled slots outside so water is getting into the chamber and not being able to escape, a picture from the outside would help determine whether it's concealed drainage or face drained but ideally the glass needs to come out and the presence of drainage slots confirming and then pouring some water in to see if it escapes, if it doesn't then that's a concern. As for the now we'll it shouldn't be bowed, that said it looks like rosewood pvc and dark surfaces are known to absorb more heat than white and can warp especially if south facing, an honest installer would have advised on the risks during survey, I would have

 

[Roger465]

OK… well, as people were kind enough to try and help me, I thought I’d publish an update. As usual, Laurel & Hardy ignored all attempts at contact (it’d been going on for a year or so now), so I sent a signed-for letter threatening legal action (this wasn’t even to get them to fix the windows – just to turn up and comment on them )

They appeared two days later, and Mr Laurel couldn’t look me in the eye. He examined the windows, and agreed they were warped. He said he’d have to get the manufacturer to come and look at them, as they had no kind of internal adjustment to pull them straight etc. That being the case, I said, they must have been warped when you fitted them – didn’t you notice at the time?

Much grunting and avoidance of eye contact again, and off they went. I texted him every so often for 3 months, and eventually he said they’d been given new frames gratis, and would come and fit them. I had to get assertive again to make it actually happen, and lo and behold Mr Hardy and a colleague turned up on Friday with the new frames.

Mr Hardy looked at the worse of the two frames, and said there was nothing wrong with it! I pointed out that you could see the curve from the other side of the street – he said no, he was lining up the edge of the room’s inside door with it, and it was fine. I put a 1M straight edge on it, and showed him the gap at the top – he said if I “had to use a precision instrument” to see the problem, there couldn’t be much wrong with it

I decided I’d better check the new ones – he handed me a 2M straight edge, saying the 1M one was useless (this was the “precision instrument”, remember). I reckoned they were straight. I then put his 2M edge on the old frame, and it was out about 1cm at the top – he said “See, it takes a proper tool to show it”.

Anyway… long story short, I now have two completely new and straight windows

Ironic thing is, when you can get L&H to actually do something, the quality of their work is really good – I got two other firms who happened to be working nearby to look at them, and they both said so.

Anyway, my blood pressure has come down out of the red zone, and I can sit and watch the birds eating nuts through a straight window

Thanks everybody

 

[diy_fun_uk]

OK… well, as people were kind enough to try and help me, I thought I’d publish an update. As usual, Laurel & Hardy ignored all attempts at contact (it’d been going on for a year or so now), so I sent a signed-for letter threatening legal action (this wasn’t even to get them to fix the windows – just to turn up and comment on them )

They appeared two days later, and Mr Laurel couldn’t look me in the eye. He examined the windows, and agreed they were warped. He said he’d have to get the manufacturer to come and look at them, as they had no kind of internal adjustment to pull them straight etc. That being the case, I said, they must have been warped when you fitted them – didn’t you notice at the time?

Much grunting and avoidance of eye contact again, and off they went. I texted him every so often for 3 months, and eventually he said they’d been given new frames gratis, and would come and fit them. I had to get assertive again to make it actually happen, and lo and behold Mr Hardy and a colleague turned up on Friday with the new frames.

Mr Hardy looked at the worse of the two frames, and said there was nothing wrong with it! I pointed out that you could see the curve from the other side of the street – he said no, he was lining up the edge of the room’s inside door with it, and it was fine. I put a 1M straight edge on it, and showed him the gap at the top – he said if I “had to use a precision instrument” to see the problem, there couldn’t be much wrong with it

I decided I’d better check the new ones – he handed me a 2M straight edge, saying the 1M one was useless (this was the “precision instrument”, remember). I reckoned they were straight. I then put his 2M edge on the old frame, and it was out about 1cm at the top – he said “See, it takes a proper tool to show it”.

Anyway… long story short, I now have two completely new and straight windows

Ironic thing is, when you can get L&H to actually do something, the quality of their work is really good – I got two other firms who happened to be working nearby to look at them, and they both said so.

Anyway, my blood pressure has come down out of the red zone, and I can sit and watch the birds eating nuts through a straight window

Thanks everybody

I'm not for one sec defending them, however your recent encounter falls into the bracket of tradespeople not wanting to be told their job and/or what might be wrong with the installation. And of course all the usual stuff i.e. trying to say there's nothing wrong, using deflection techniques etc.

What's a pity is you've had the balls to push for resolution, many people don't have and end up living with an inferior job.

Well done on getting them to fix it