Old house

[dphomes]

How much do you value life £1000 £2000 £3000 It is frighening the amount of deaths and injuries caused by DIY electrical.

It's not worth it to tackle a house rewire all for avoiding a qualified electricans fee. I renovate properties for a living and I could easily rewire a house but I always choose to pay and not with my life or those living in the property.

To start off your building insurance in the event of a fire will not cover you if you don't use a qualified electrician. Check the small print.

You won't be able to sell your house without a electical certification.

Anyone giving advice on these forums about electrical DIY are also open to legal address.

Leave the electrics to professionals, today we have regs that are designed to keep our electricians in check with the latest standards.

If you are keen to learn then enrol yourself in a local college and once they think you are capable and ready to tackle a re-wire then have a go.

Bits of information can be dangerous in the wrong hands. Those inexperienced or know it all people but have no qualifications to back up their advice fly into danger without a safety net.

 

[2scoops0406]

I know what you're saying, and to a large extent I agree (almost certainly with house re-wires), however the time'll come when you have to have the shelf you put up certified as structurally sound, and provide certification to validate what kind of loads it can bear. Wallpaper put on with the correct BS reg wallpaper paste, paint applied to the correct agreed EU thickness............ I think I'm going off into one

 

[securespark]

What about the proposed EU regulation for b onking?

If it goes through, from 31st December 2005, it will be illegal to have sex in any place other than a bed, for safety reasons. Apparently, injuries sustained during sex are numerous, and cost insurances companies and Health Services of those countries included in the report €6bn per annum.

There is a proposed allowance, though. If you do choose to break the law, you must sign a chitty saying you understand the consequences of your actions and will become liable for any hospitalisation fees.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If required, I can act as an independent inspector for people who are not qualified to self-certify their own chitties...

 

[fubar]

If required, I can act as an independent inspector for people who are not qualified to self-certify their own chitties...

For a minute there, I thought you were going to say that you would be providing an independant service to test the proposed methods, prior to the DIYer going for it.

--
Michael

 

[shaggy]

dphomes:

You won't be able to sell your house without a electical certification.

Is that a new rule that I don't know about? I've renovated several properties including rewire but have never been asked for a certificate.

 

[fubar]

dphomes:

You won't be able to sell your house without a electical certification.

Is that a new rule that I don't know about? I've renovated several properties including rewire but have never been asked for a certificate.

I think dphomes means that it may be difficult to sell your house without an electrical certificate and may cause delays in the sale (while you get an electrician in to inspect, test and fix your electrics).

Search this forum for "part p" or do a google search for "part p" or "approved document p". Part P is a new part of the building regulations that comes into force in 2005 and makes electrical work a controlled service like (but not exactly the same as) gas work.

It also forms a part of the governments plans to introduce a "house buyers pack" containing essential information about the house being purchased including certificates for uPVC doors and windows, electrical and gas safety/compliance certificates and things like heat insulation and asbestos.

--
Michael

 

[Damocles]

Someone once posted that should this ever come about, the pragmatic approach will be for your solicitor to take out insurance against any future problem, and tell all the certificate sellers to get lost.

 

[dphomes]

The reg is about to be passed where you will need to provide a certification. You are right at present there is no certification requirement.
You maybe asked to provide receipts or guarantees. However in law your buyer could still make a claim against your work if you had not complied with building regs.

I understand that this reg is shortly being introduced to protect buyers of property. At present you have to state in the terms of sale contract if the property has had a rewire and the date. You obviously have to provide a copy of a current guarantee as this will be proof that work has been carried out.

The new reg would include a certification from a qualified electrician for work done or for testing. But it is more likely to based on work done than on just a safety test.

But it looks like they are going to take a further step forward that applys to all properties regardless of sale. Electrics certification just like we have with MOT with cars. Random checks will be made on all properties and building insurance companies will require them.

Lets face it DIY electrics needed to be tightly regulated or stopped all together.

 

[shaggy]

I’m aware of Part P from Jan 05 and expect there will be a question from buyer’s solicitor asking if there have been any electrical alterations requiring certification under Part P. Many people will answer ‘no’ even if there have been, just as most people answer ‘no’ to the question about disputes with neighbours even if they’ve had a few rows.
Michael, you said it may be difficult to sell your house while you get an electrician to test the electrics but I wasn’t aware that this was required, so are you agreeing with dp that a certificate is required? That is a new one on me so perhaps I am not up-to-date?
As regards the ‘buyer’s pack’, the government have been talking about this for years.

 

[fubar]

Michael, you said it may be difficult to sell your house while you get an electrician to test the electrics but I wasn’t aware that this was required, so are you agreeing with dp that a certificate is required?

It is not required. It is the same as, say, a home-buyers survey. You don't have to have one and the seller doesn't have to take notice. But if the buyer insists that problems are fixed/work is certified or otherwise insists on a discount, what are you going to do as a seller?

Similarly, if some sellers have a certificate and others don't - it is little different to some houses having off-road parking - you might not get more money for your house if you have it, but you might get a quicker sale because buyers will choose your house over a similar house if there is nothing else to sway the decision.

--
Michael

 

[Damocles]

As the man said, just lie to the buyers and take out indemnity insurance if there turns out to be any comeback.

The reality is that most houses do not comply with wiring regulations, even if only because the regs change from time to time. It is wholly impractical to require people to sell houses only if the wiring is completely up to code. It is even impractical to forbid people to sell houses where the wiring is downright unsafe. Best you can reasonably enforce is disclosure of known facts, like when rewired, or whether all the lights go out when you turn on the kettle.

 

[shaggy]

fubar:

But if the buyer insists that problems are fixed/work is certified or otherwise insists on a discount, what are you going to do as a seller?

What I said to the buyers of the last house I sold after we agreed on the price was that I would fix any problems that their surveyor found at my cost. He commented that the cold water cistern had a bit of surface rust so I fitted them a new plastic one. I will do the same when I sell my current house.
I bought one house where the wiring was so dodgy the electric company had disconnected it and would only re-connect after a rewire, which was fair enough.
I didn't think that dodgy diy electrics was a major cause for concern. Not that I do anything dodgy myself but I have seen a lot of work that is blatently against the regs. I once bought a house that had 2-way switching using the earth wire as a live, perhaps because the guy had run out of 3-core. It had obviously been built like that so was not diy. I'm sure he knew it was wrong but it shows that qualified guys can do bad work.

 

[kai]

I bought a 1990's home, and the cables to the bathroom heater were run at thirty degrees in angle, diagonally in plaster, against the regs.

I had to correct this blatant mistake, by re-chiselling the wall, cutting back the original cables to ceiling level, inserting an unswitched FCU, and running a Vertical fused spur to the heater. and tidy up afterwards.