Part P
- Thread starter ChrisR
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I'm really interested to hear the replies to this. I'm no electrician, but I'm happy to do a simple power or lighting circuit.
As I understand it, existing qualifications mean zip - you have to be observed by one of about half a dozen 'recognized' companies in the U.K. (easily identified by members of the cabinet on the board of directors?
) and then, after paying your fee for 6 months supervision,
you can self certify.
No idea who the recognised companies are.
I'd have little problem with the whole part P if it allowed existing qualifications to define 'competant persons' - fair enough - I might know that I'm confident to do power and lighting but not to do a central heating system, but that doesn't give any confidence to anyone else as I have no qualification.
So how is it ever going to fly, especially in the first year?
Where's the information?
As I understand it, existing qualifications mean zip - you have to be observed by one of about half a dozen 'recognized' companies in the U.K. (easily identified by members of the cabinet on the board of directors?
) and then, after paying your fee for 6 months supervision, you can self certify.
No idea who the recognised companies are.
I'd have little problem with the whole part P if it allowed existing qualifications to define 'competant persons' - fair enough - I might know that I'm confident to do power and lighting but not to do a central heating system, but that doesn't give any confidence to anyone else as I have no qualification.
So how is it ever going to fly, especially in the first year?
Where's the information?
There seem to be some schemes for electricians, but they're excessive for heating system needs. OFTEC say "just carry on", presumably this is CORGI's position too. There aren't any schemes available yet and it seems there won't be for several months. It's no problem for anyone but the installer as he'll be responsible
The cost for electricians is £hundreds, ridiculous for heating requirements. Even when people have got certified, it won't stop the bad tradesmen (a large proportion). An OFTEC inspector told me over 80% of the people he saw were "rubbish" (as quoted). Presumably CORGI are similar, assessment requirements are deliberately low enough to get most people passed and paying their money.
The cost for electricians is £hundreds, ridiculous for heating requirements. Even when people have got certified, it won't stop the bad tradesmen (a large proportion). An OFTEC inspector told me over 80% of the people he saw were "rubbish" (as quoted). Presumably CORGI are similar, assessment requirements are deliberately low enough to get most people passed and paying their money.
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I phoned corgi and they dont know, couldn't tell me, I lost my temper and told the guy it was **** poor and fukkin ridiculous.
I phoned my inspector and he said forget it for now.
It's a bloody joke but no one is laughing.
I phoned my inspector and he said forget it for now.
It's a bloody joke but no one is laughing.
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talked to CORGI they said ignore it but be prepared to be done if you do
so then spoke to the buildings control officer who said DONT ignore it get qualified to 16th edition (yeah right before jan 05)
The spoken to the trade and industry office who said talk to the office of the deputy prime minister (pie eating bastard)
Finally I got some sort of answer to conform to part P we must attend the City and Guilds Level 2 Domestic engineers, encompassing Part P course
I started it on thurs bloody hard work ****ing expensive (1000 for course 400 fpr test meter 300 registration fee)
This will enable to to
Issue minor works certificate
Issue Electric Installation cert
so then spoke to the buildings control officer who said DONT ignore it get qualified to 16th edition (yeah right before jan 05)
The spoken to the trade and industry office who said talk to the office of the deputy prime minister (pie eating bastard)
Finally I got some sort of answer to conform to part P we must attend the City and Guilds Level 2 Domestic engineers, encompassing Part P course
I started it on thurs bloody hard work ****ing expensive (1000 for course 400 fpr test meter 300 registration fee)
This will enable to to
Issue minor works certificate
Issue Electric Installation cert
It is covered nicely in this article;
http://www.learndirect-advice.co.uk/helpwithyourcareer/jobprofiles/profiles/profile274/
http://www.learndirect-advice.co.uk/helpwithyourcareer/jobprofiles/profiles/profile274/
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Going to ignore it for now as told to by corgi and my inspector, I dont do shower electrics anymore so only woried about CH installations, well no fakkin way am I paying £1400.00 to wire a 3 pin plug or change a mot valve, I will live with the risk which is non existent, just look at how many people have been fined for part L non compliance (none).
I did all this b*ll*cks in my acops, well unless the electricity comes out of the wall differently or at a different angle or colour I am well competent to carry on as normal.
I did all this b*ll*cks in my acops, well unless the electricity comes out of the wall differently or at a different angle or colour I am well competent to carry on as normal.
You all seem to be looking at this the wrong way - for competent professional people its good news - think of the one liner in your quotes advising punters that you are officially allowed to work on domestic installs and they will get a safe job plus a minor works certificate for the work (leaving them to see clearly most of your competition are not!)
Yes its expensive - I did a C&G 2381 (actually quite tough but interesting too) course at a local college - £400, registration with one of the bodies is £400 + Vat, test kit - up to £1,000 and annual re-registration another £400 +Vat - £2,000 plus lost days work whilst being inspected but I'll add £20 a day to my labour rate (assuming I pass the inspections! ).
Plumbing is next for the attentoin of the Dep PM!
Yes its expensive - I did a C&G 2381 (actually quite tough but interesting too) course at a local college - £400, registration with one of the bodies is £400 + Vat, test kit - up to £1,000 and annual re-registration another £400 +Vat - £2,000 plus lost days work whilst being inspected but I'll add £20 a day to my labour rate (assuming I pass the inspections!
).Plumbing is next for the attentoin of the Dep PM!
it might be next on the list but the rgis are going to be a bit harder to handle m8
not yet its not cut and dried by a long chalk
All seems remarkably cheap to me (PVM may yawn here). Any old shop has thousands a year to pay in rates, loads of professions need indemnity insurance which we don't. And so on and on. I used to be completely out of date every 2 years and have to retrain myself in long evenings, only to find I was older so harder to employ.
Just redone ACS. £50 for a book and about £600 for ccn1+ all the domestic elements. After 5 years. Peanuts.
Just redone ACS. £50 for a book and about £600 for ccn1+ all the domestic elements. After 5 years. Peanuts.
OFTEC newsletter says:
...........For technicians working on heating systems from Jan 2005, part P will cover....such as:
Wiring up a new heating system
Cross bonding (not many customers I want to do this with )
Replacement of timers or pumps.
OFTEC are going to run a defined scope scheme......
3 categories:
A fully qualified electrician - not available
B limited scope including new power outlets, this will be an extra under the installation assessment.
C lower level for servicing only.
No word on who's running the assessments or when.
It is possible I suppose corgi might do something like this, which means C&G is not necessary. Well done those who bothered, but fock that for an evenings pastime. There's still krap work being done by fully quaified people of all trades on new build and signed off by building control.
AND incidentally OFTEC are up to the same poxy scheme as corgi where we have to notify OFTEC of every installation, send them money and they send a certificate to the proud (but penniless) owner. Just to make it awkward the wording to hand is " the government has asked........that Building Control be notified of every job - which will include installation, replacement, commissioning and service work. By doing this they hope to crack down on the cowboy element of the industry as well."
HA HA HA HA HA, so they want building control to be notified of SERVICE? work as well? (That's what it says). Well they'd better get loads more prisons built because they'll be needed for all the technicians who have dropped off and are thus criminals.
...........For technicians working on heating systems from Jan 2005, part P will cover....such as:
Wiring up a new heating system
Cross bonding (not many customers I want to do this with
)Replacement of timers or pumps.
OFTEC are going to run a defined scope scheme......
3 categories:
A fully qualified electrician - not available
B limited scope including new power outlets, this will be an extra under the installation assessment.
C lower level for servicing only.
No word on who's running the assessments or when.
It is possible I suppose corgi might do something like this, which means C&G is not necessary. Well done those who bothered, but fock that for an evenings pastime. There's still krap work being done by fully quaified people of all trades on new build and signed off by building control.
AND incidentally OFTEC are up to the same poxy scheme as corgi where we have to notify OFTEC of every installation, send them money and they send a certificate to the proud (but penniless) owner. Just to make it awkward the wording to hand is " the government has asked........that Building Control be notified of every job - which will include installation, replacement, commissioning and service work. By doing this they hope to crack down on the cowboy element of the industry as well."
HA HA HA HA HA, so they want building control to be notified of SERVICE? work as well? (That's what it says). Well they'd better get loads more prisons built because they'll be needed for all the technicians who have dropped off and are thus criminals.
Far as I can see it's only RGI's that are looking to stand their corner in these issues, www.argi.org.uk and what about the general public, do you not think that they should be informed of all these changes, at the end of the day it's them that pay for it, and what exactly are they gaining?
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