Potterton Suprima 60 - Possibly serious servicing shortcuts

[EvilChap]

British Gas just finished their initial inspection at my place I bought just over a month ago.

It was 'serviced' by another firm in August this year and they put just 1 note on the receipt - that they could not access the flue.

It turns out the flue is full of holes, and we're unable to use our boiler until it and a few other bits are replaced. Total bill = £520inc. VAT with British Gas, which includes parts and labour.

This seems a little steep for something that seems to a lay person like it should have been both spotted and rectified already. I am informed with my sort of installation the fact you cant easily inspect the flue, during a service extra attention is paid to the flame shape etc to see if all is as it should be, and mine is obviously not correct to a trained eye - however this information is on the say so of the British Gas chappy.

As I dig into it I guess I might find out that the previous owners of the house may have got him to write out an invoice to make the history complete, however as they have history of it being serviced every year from new I think this is probably unlikely.

So I am wondering if I am likely to have any recourse with the person who did the servicing before - I am thinking probably not as it was done for somebody other than me, so I have no contract with him. However I did think having the correct certificate / paperwork to work on Gas things should also invoice standing by work somehow?

Thanks for any help and advice, as a newbie home owner this is all new to me, so I am in the hands of professionals and advice from them.

Ben

 

[Tibbot]

This seems a little steep for something that seems to a lay person like it should have been both spotted and rectified already.

At whatever stage flue deterioration is spotted it woudn't be rectified as part of a service but treated as a separate job. It will cost whenever it's done. However you could call into question the safety aspect if a previous RGI hadn't highlighted any defects found. Proving they were present at the time would be difficult.

 

[EvilChap]

Indeed - proving how it was 2 months ago will be a challenge for sure.

I didn't mean to suggest it should be done in a standard service, more it should have been spotted as the service is the annual inspection, and the only attention the boiler gets.

As it stands we cant use the heating until it's fixed as it's leaking, which makes us sad

 

[CBF]

where does the flue go that isn't accessable & how come BG could see it was full of holes if the other guy couldn't ?

 

[EvilChap]

Boiler is in the garage, and next to it is a WC.

The flue is boxed in once it goes through the garage wall into the WC.

The BG chap shone a torch from the outside and could see all the light escaping I believe, and also the flame was behaving in a way which made it clear it wasn't working correctly.

This is the same thing he told me any engineer ought to have done, although he could not comment on the work of anybody else of course, just on how he/they would always approach this sort of install

 

[CBF]

ok so it might need a new flue, you would have to remove the boxing or fit inspection hatches in it anyway, what other bits does it need for this crazy price of £520

 

[EvilChap]

Slightly troublingly the BG man hasn't given me a written breakdown yet, I will get this tomorrow.

The flue was the main expense with anything suggested as incidental, but I dont want to make this assumption 100% into fact before I have the breakdown.

The flue will possibly/probably need re-angling to stop moisture build-up, this much I know.

The PCD also has already been changed recently, so this for sure is not part of the list/quote.

 

[CBF]

well let us now tomorrow when you have the breakdown & we can tell you how much they are ripping you off by, i presume you mean PCB not PCD ?

 

[EvilChap]

Haha yes, PCB not PCD, my day job is selling wheels for I must have PCD on the brain!

Thanks for the feedback, I will report back in the morning

 

[Phill Peck]

The previous engineer should have checked but if it was not accessible there isn't much he can do

What you are saying about "flame shape" would be the flame picture and yest it would become obvious but only after it has been on for around 10 mins (possibly less). It is quite possible that during the course of a service it wasn't seen.

I doubt you would get far attempting to claim from him as he hasn't worked for you (as you said)

 

[Agile]

With an old boiler many do not do an FGA measurement. If by chance they did then it would probably have shown something is not right to an experienced person.

But the flame picture will show this to the experienced person.

There is always a very small possibility that he saw the problem and agreed to not mention it !

Looking down a longer flue is only easy after darkness.

 

[Gasguru]

First point of call is to call Gas-Safe and ask for an inspection. However, this can take some time and you may not want to go without hot water (unless there's an immersion) or heating whilst the boiler is out of action.

Have a look at this...

https://engineers.gassaferegister.c... draught chimney systems in voids-revised.pdf

If there are no inspection covers to check the entire flue lenght then an assessment must be carried out and carbon monoxide alarms fitted. If it was done the vendors should have the paperwork and usually during the conveyancing they will be required to state the condition of the boiler. Part of the assessment requires the use of flue gas analysis. This would probably pick up a problem flue.

It appears that this was not done. Given my recent experience when reporting other installers to Gas-Safe the outcome should give you sufficient clout against the original installer that deemed the installation safe. ie. if he did not carry out TB008 he may be forced to rectify the situation perhaps at his own cost.

Of course BG could be up to their old tricks and the flue may be fine.

Note that from the end of this year inspection hatches MUST be installed.

 

[EvilChap]

I have had a look and the central heating is stated as being in good order in the conveyancing paperwork, it was installed in 1999 which doesn't feel that long ago. How long are these sorts of things usually good for?

The hot water cylinder was replaced in 2003 I can see from my paperwork. It's an unvented system.

I will post up my quote breakdown tomorrow, thanks again for the input and feedback.

 

[petit_pablo]

BG price is steep, i wouldnt have charged that but i can imagine the guy has priced it as labour plus parts.

With BG labour at £80 an hour it adds up pretty quick!

 

[Agile]

I have had a look and the central heating is stated as being in good order in the conveyancing paperwork, it was installed in 1999 which doesn't feel that long ago. How long are these sorts of things usually good for?

You have not made it 100% clear but if parts of the flue with a joint is not inspectable then the system is not "in good order" and needs to be turned off after 1st April 2013 by any visiting RGI.

Prior to that date then the TB008 procedure to risk assess is needed.

If your flue is within that description then the RGI working for the seller seems to have slipped up thus placing the vendor ( unknowingly ) in contravention of the presale statements!

She could be liable for remedial works and could perhaps pass that claim on to her RGI !

The Suprima boilers are expected to last about 10-12 years so yours is already past its usual lifespan.

Tony