Quick Thermostat Wiring Question

[EFLImpudence]

All the wires you need will be near - either the boiler or a wiring centre.

There really is no point messing about with the alarm wiring or the old thermostat cable.


First step - find the other end of the thermostat cable.

 

[ericmark]

Too my mind two types of wireless the one I want is a Horstmann HRFS1 Programmable Room Thermostat and with that the time is part of the thermostat so rather than on/off the time changes the temperature so you get night at say 14 degrees and day at 20 degrees.

My mothers the timer is remote from thermostat so timer is on/off thermostat only works when timer has switched it on.

Where as with the one I want for mothers house it also does time then there is no point in wireless master as it can be mounted next to boiler where there is power. But with what she has at the moment there would be a point as clock is remote from thermostat and needs to be where it can be accessed.

Most timers are wired like to show the replacement thermostat so for most people it would be a straight swap. But really can't see the point of a single temperature setting thermostat when the multi setting one is cheaper.

 

[Taylortwocities]

You can't connect it up to the burglar alarm box! It has to be connected to the same supply as to the boiler. Otherwise the boiler's isolating switch won't be isolating the thermostat properly, and that is potentially dangerous.

From your picture, your existing thermostat only has two wires (& earth) coming from the boiler. There is no neutral at that point.
For the wireless system you need 3 wires (& earth).

As said before, it means a new cable, or the wireless base unit can be sited adjacent to the boiler, but it needs some rewiring by someone who knows what they are doing.

 

[JohnW2]

I see. I wasn't aware my current one had batteries in to be honest! I just took the front off to have a look:

Your current one doesn't have batteries - there is no reason why it would need them. I was talking about wireless ones which do run off batteries, and which would not need more than the two wires your already have at the stat location.[/quote]

So lets say, I move the new one next to the boiler, can that be a DIY job with basic experience?

It would be pretty straightforward for someone who understood what they were doing, but I fear that you might find it challenging. However, it should be a pretty quick job for an electrician.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

From your picture, your existing thermostat only has two wires (& earth) coming from the boiler. There is no neutral at that point. ... For the wireless system you need 3 wires (& earth). ... As said before, it means a new cable, or the wireless base unit can be sited adjacent to the boiler ....

That's true for mains-powered wireless ones like the one which the OP has ordered (indeed, such a wireless one might conceivably even need 4 wires, if the boiler switching were not at 230V), but he seems prepared to entertain the possibility of getting a different one.

However, I'm not sure why 'everyone' has ignored my comments/suggestions about battery-powered wireless ones - which, as far as I can see, should only need the 2 wires which already exist at the stat location, and therefore should be an easy DIY job to install (basically just a straight swap for the current stat). Am I missing something??

Kind Regards, John

 

[adzyp]

From your picture, your existing thermostat only has two wires (& earth) coming from the boiler. There is no neutral at that point. ... For the wireless system you need 3 wires (& earth). ... As said before, it means a new cable, or the wireless base unit can be sited adjacent to the boiler ....

That's true for mains-powered wireless ones like the one which the OP has ordered (indeed, such a wireless one might conceivably even need 4 wires, if the boiler switching were not at 230V), but he seems prepared to entertain the possibility of getting a different one.

However, I'm not sure why 'everyone' has ignored my comments/suggestions about battery-powered wireless ones - which, as far as I can see, should only need the 2 wires which already exist at the stat location, and therefore should be an easy DIY job to install (basically just a straight swap for the current stat). Am I missing something??

Kind Regards, John

Id be interest to see one that is like you say, that would be a lot easier! If anyone has any links

With regards to my current one theres definitely batteries in there and the whole thing turns off when theyre removed, is that different to what youre saying?

Assuming i go down relocating next to the boiler, how much do you think the job would cost for an electrician?

 

[adzyp]

What about this one? http://www.plumbingplace.co.uk/Salu...&istBid=tzit&gclid=CPrTsIWYmsICFSMFwwodDGcAaw

Says can be used for volt free and 230V applications.

I've seen some reviews saying it's an easy swap, unless they already have the better woring? I never thought it would be this difficult

 

[Taylortwocities]

No, the Salus one is not suitable. If you look at the user/installation manual on your link, you can see that it also needs the (missing) neutral at the main unit.

Note: the term "volt free" refers to the control wires back to the boiler. Most wireless devices provide a "volt free" switch - modern boilers do not like anything else(!) Most senders also require a permanent live and neutral too, that is why they are usually installed next to the wiring centre, where all of these connections are available.

John, can you provide a link to the device you have referred to that uses batteries at both the the sender and receiver ends?

 

[adzyp]

No, the Salus one is not suitable. If you look at the user/installation manual on your link, you can see that it also needs the (missing) neutral at the main unit.

Note: the term "volt free" refers to the control wires back to the boiler. Most wireless devices provide a "volt free" switch - modern boilers do not like anything else(!) Most senders also require a permanent live and neutral too, that is why they are usually installed next to the wiring centre, where all of these connections are available.

John, can you provide a link to the device you have referred to that uses batteries at both the the sender and receiver ends?

Thanks, so is it common to have the type of wiring/thermostat i have? Or am i am unlucky minority? You read the reviews on these things and nobody ever seems to complain about installation.

It will all depend now on how much an electrician will charge, im not sure the benefits will outlay the cost if its going to be expensive

 

[Taylortwocities]

You have a fairly modern (battery-powered) thermostat. these only need two wires (live and switched live).

In the good old days, most thermostats needed a neutral as well - which unfortunately is what is what you need. So most people who are replacing old thermostats have the wiring that is needed.

As I say, its an easy job to do for any competent electrician.

 

[adzyp]

You have a fairly modern (battery-powered) thermostat. these only need two wires (live and switched live).

In the good old days, most thermostats needed a neutral as well - which unfortunately is what is what you need. So most people who are replacing old thermostats have the wiring that is needed.

As I say, its an easy job to do for any competent electrician.

Just sorted en elelctrician to come and do it next week, knew exactly what I wanted and says will only take an hour/£30. Good enough for me! thanks guys

 

[JohnW2]

John, can you provide a link to the device you have referred to that uses batteries at both the the sender and receiver ends?

I did back on page 1 ....

As I said, what you really need to try to find (I'm pretty sure that they exist!) is one for which the main/master unit is battery-powered - you would then be able to simply replace you present stat with it.

How about (this one), instructions (here) - which I think is probably an example of what I was talking about?

The manual is all rather confusing, and in places seems to imply that a 230V supply is needed. However, it contains:

"...Styled on the RMT and RET thermostat range, the RET B provides accurate electronic temperature control without the need for an external power supply. This makes it an ideal solution for system upgrades when replacing conventional electromechanical two-wire thermostats... "

... which certainly sounds like exactly what the OP would need to make it an easy DIY install. What do you think?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I think that it doesn't talk about there being a battery powered receiver.

Isn't that the issue, not one of a battery powered transmitter?

Although I only skimmed through the topic, as it looked to have been sorted, so I might have misunderstood.

 

[adzyp]

John, can you provide a link to the device you have referred to that uses batteries at both the the sender and receiver ends?

I did back on page 1 ....

As I said, what you really need to try to find (I'm pretty sure that they exist!) is one for which the main/master unit is battery-powered - you would then be able to simply replace you present stat with it.

How about (this one), instructions (here) - which I think is probably an example of what I was talking about?

The manual is all rather confusing, and in places seems to imply that a 230V supply is needed. However, it contains:

"...Styled on the RMT and RET thermostat range, the RET B provides accurate electronic temperature control without the need for an external power supply. This makes it an ideal solution for system upgrades when replacing conventional electromechanical two-wire thermostats... "

... which certainly sounds like exactly what the OP would need to make it an easy DIY install. What do you think?

Kind Regards, John

Sorry John, I must have missed that post. Just had a look at it and it doesnt seem to be programmable anyway

 

[JohnW2]

I think that it doesn't talk about there being a battery powered receiver. ... Isn't that the issue, not one of a battery powered transmitter?

That's why I said the manual is confusing - the spec seems to be saying that the receiver is 230V powered. However, as I said ...

"... This makes it an ideal solution for system upgrades when replacing conventional electromechanical two-wire thermostats... "

... which is exactly what the OP would have wanted to do, and hence seemed to be implying that the receiver (the hard-wired part) was battery-powered. Why else would it be ideal for 'upgrading from a conventional 2-wire thermostat'? It's confusing, at least to me!

Kind Regards, John