Not sure why you're trying to do things the hard way.
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The MT4 is a thermoelectric actuator. It gets a current. 5 minutes later it opens a few millimetres. If it has an end switch, then a volt free contact is made that can take a few amps.
These valves can also come set that they are open until current is applied, at which point they begin to close.
It is not rocket science, and I can't believe this thread has got to 2 pages.
What the OP wants will require mains voltage, on the same circuit, to go to each rad, with at least one return switched live to wherever the zone valves are. Its patently ridiculous to apply unless you are doing a complete refit of the house. In which case, it can be achieved with Heatmiser for a bit less of a cost, but with a crap user interface.
The MT4 is a thermoelectric actuator. It gets a current. 5 minutes later it opens a few millimetres. If it has an end switch, then a volt free contact is made that can take a few amps.
These valves can also come set that they are open until current is applied, at which point they begin to close.
It is not rocket science, and I can't believe this thread has got to 2 pages.
What the OP wants will require mains voltage, on the same circuit, to go to each rad, with at least one return switched live to wherever the zone valves are. Its patently ridiculous to apply unless you are doing a complete refit of the house. In which case, it can be achieved with Heatmiser for a bit less of a cost, but with a crap user interface.
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There is a 24 volt version
Open discussion tends to cover all aspects and hence a lot of posts,
Can you explain why it is ridiculous.
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Great, so the OP then has to introduce a transformer(s) into the mix for added simplicity.
***Deleted for "Why" would you want to trail more cables around a house disrupting decorations etc making a system so overly complex when... inside of a morning, you can have the system fitted tested and functioning precisely as intended with zero disruption to house and marital bliss. Plus giving increased efficiency and the ability to control things from a phone. So what if you have to change a couple of AA batteries every couple of years?
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How resilient is the system to disruption by other equipment operating on the same wireless frequency ? Do heating engineers perform channel occupancy checks before recommending the installation of a system using Licence Exempt wireless equipment for all its vital commincation links. ?
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I fitted two electronic TRV heads which are wireless, there is however a problem, they don't seem to have a way to use the information given from the valves to work the boiler.
Shown is the report sent to my PC, it shows both target and current and if the target is higher than current on any valve then I want boiler to run, simple, however there does not seem to be any software to take the information and operate a simple on/off relay to do what I want, the relay is made, and the system is there, it uses IFTTT protocol however one you need some one to have written the program, and two it needs internet connections to work, so internet down would mean no heating.
So I would say the hard wired version does have a lot of advantages, however as to cost not so sure, EvoHome will do the job all ready set up, so unless cheaper than EvoHome not worth it, however EvoHome is expensive.
The idea of wax being heated allows for the use of a anti-hysteresis enabled thermostat, the mark/space ratio will adjust how long the valve is open for, however you need a thermostat so enabled, I have a Honeywell Y6630D Wireless Room Thermostat not programmable which has the anti-hysteresis but at £120 each the EvoHome would work out cheaper.
The Horstmann HRFS1 Programmable Room Thermostat only £67 lost RF signal and as a result heating got stuck on, so with wireless you need the expensive thermostat to ensure it does not fail due to RF interference.
So cost wise looking at around £25 for a wired programmable thermostat you need one for every room to work the radiator valve head, and another £25 for the head so each room around £50 so at £62 for an EvoHome head really not much in the price, but then the EvoHome needs an extra £250 for the "Thermostat" which takes the info and controls the boiler. However with a opentherm boiler it actually controls boiler output not just simple on/off.
So if I am looking at this correct, you need to be able to hard wire for £300 or less to be worth using the heads rather than using EvoHome. As DIY I suppose this is possible.
My son does not like wifi and was rewiring his house, he fitted a server in the loft and as well as LAN for computers and TV's he also took one to each radiator, then found all the valves were wifi, he simply could not buy a hard wired TRV head. So 10 of the LAN sockets will never be used.
I would love to know how this all works, as to be frank in mothers house only really worried about two rooms, so two rooms which these heads and two thermostats it would likely work out worth doing. However knowing my luck, just after I had finished likely a IFTTT program would come out allowing me to use the valve heads I already have.
There is also the where to put the room thermostat? Before the Horstmann HRFS1 Programmable Room Thermostat failed, I tried it in many places in the room, non seemed to be ideal, opposite the radiator means on outside wall so always colder than the room, 90° to radiator it was found there was a massive over shoot, best was on the tea trolley very close to radiator and set a little high to compensate for how close it was, this reduced the hysteresis but resulted in the temperature varying according to how cold outside and how hot the radiator got. The electronic head for the TRV however has two sensors so it compensates for the radiator temperature and I can say it works, set to 20°C the room does stay at 20°C so the electronic TRV actually works better at keeping the room at the set temperature.
Unfortunately I bought Energenie MiHome heads not EvoHome, so my heads will work with Nest, but not with the EvoHome programmer (Thermostat) so they have to be both at the same temperature to work with Nest, it uses a follow command so either heads follow Nest or Nest follows heads, so all have to be same temperature, and the whole idea of TRV is rooms can be set to different temperatures.
At the moment I am not using Nest, I just have a Honeywell Y6630D Wireless Room Thermostat in the hall, there is a problem having different temperatures in the hall and living room, door to hall closed and living room set to 21°C and hall at 19°C all works A1, but leave the door open and the living room radiator heats the hall, so living room temperature drops to 20°C as hall thermostat turns off the boiler. However to fit EvoHome to just gain 1°C when door is open is really going a bit silly, the old Horstmann HRFS1 Programmable Room Thermostat still works when very close to receiver so is mounted in kitchen in parallel with Honeywell Y6630D and gives a morning boost before we get up.
It took a long time to get reasonable results, including doing what everyone said you should not, and fitting a TRV in the hall as well as the Honeywell Y6630D carefully set, and temperature never altered this allows the hall radiator which is large, to heat hall after front door has been opened but to slow down before hall reaches the temperature which will switch off boiler.
Not perfect but it does work. If I knew what I do now, then either the heads talked about with thermostat in every room or EvoHome would be fitted, but now it's working reasonable it is hardly worth starting all over again. However I hope my failures and successes will help decide if worth the effort.
So I would say the hard wired version does have a lot of advantages, however as to cost not so sure, EvoHome will do the job all ready set up, so unless cheaper than EvoHome not worth it, however EvoHome is expensive.
The idea of wax being heated allows for the use of a anti-hysteresis enabled thermostat, the mark/space ratio will adjust how long the valve is open for, however you need a thermostat so enabled, I have a Honeywell Y6630D Wireless Room Thermostat not programmable which has the anti-hysteresis but at £120 each the EvoHome would work out cheaper.
The Horstmann HRFS1 Programmable Room Thermostat only £67 lost RF signal and as a result heating got stuck on, so with wireless you need the expensive thermostat to ensure it does not fail due to RF interference.
So cost wise looking at around £25 for a wired programmable thermostat you need one for every room to work the radiator valve head, and another £25 for the head so each room around £50 so at £62 for an EvoHome head really not much in the price, but then the EvoHome needs an extra £250 for the "Thermostat" which takes the info and controls the boiler. However with a opentherm boiler it actually controls boiler output not just simple on/off.
So if I am looking at this correct, you need to be able to hard wire for £300 or less to be worth using the heads rather than using EvoHome. As DIY I suppose this is possible.
My son does not like wifi and was rewiring his house, he fitted a server in the loft and as well as LAN for computers and TV's he also took one to each radiator, then found all the valves were wifi, he simply could not buy a hard wired TRV head. So 10 of the LAN sockets will never be used.
I would love to know how this all works, as to be frank in mothers house only really worried about two rooms, so two rooms which these heads and two thermostats it would likely work out worth doing. However knowing my luck, just after I had finished likely a IFTTT program would come out allowing me to use the valve heads I already have.
There is also the where to put the room thermostat? Before the Horstmann HRFS1 Programmable Room Thermostat failed, I tried it in many places in the room, non seemed to be ideal, opposite the radiator means on outside wall so always colder than the room, 90° to radiator it was found there was a massive over shoot, best was on the tea trolley very close to radiator and set a little high to compensate for how close it was, this reduced the hysteresis but resulted in the temperature varying according to how cold outside and how hot the radiator got. The electronic head for the TRV however has two sensors so it compensates for the radiator temperature and I can say it works, set to 20°C the room does stay at 20°C so the electronic TRV actually works better at keeping the room at the set temperature.
Unfortunately I bought Energenie MiHome heads not EvoHome, so my heads will work with Nest, but not with the EvoHome programmer (Thermostat) so they have to be both at the same temperature to work with Nest, it uses a follow command so either heads follow Nest or Nest follows heads, so all have to be same temperature, and the whole idea of TRV is rooms can be set to different temperatures.
At the moment I am not using Nest, I just have a Honeywell Y6630D Wireless Room Thermostat in the hall, there is a problem having different temperatures in the hall and living room, door to hall closed and living room set to 21°C and hall at 19°C all works A1, but leave the door open and the living room radiator heats the hall, so living room temperature drops to 20°C as hall thermostat turns off the boiler. However to fit EvoHome to just gain 1°C when door is open is really going a bit silly, the old Horstmann HRFS1 Programmable Room Thermostat still works when very close to receiver so is mounted in kitchen in parallel with Honeywell Y6630D and gives a morning boost before we get up.
It took a long time to get reasonable results, including doing what everyone said you should not, and fitting a TRV in the hall as well as the Honeywell Y6630D carefully set, and temperature never altered this allows the hall radiator which is large, to heat hall after front door has been opened but to slow down before hall reaches the temperature which will switch off boiler.
Not perfect but it does work. If I knew what I do now, then either the heads talked about with thermostat in every room or EvoHome would be fitted, but now it's working reasonable it is hardly worth starting all over again. However I hope my failures and successes will help decide if worth the effort.
That is bad. The system should be that the thermostat sends regular "Heating ON" commands every 5 minutes when heating is required. The receiver at the boiler turns the boiler ON when it receives a "Heating ON" command but only for 6 minutes. If another "Heating ON" command is received before the 6 mimute timer runs out the timer is reset for another 6 minutes of heating. If a "Heating OFF" command is sent and received the boiler shuts down. If the "Heating OFF" command is sent but not received then the boiler only runs unnecessarily for less than 6 minutes before being shut down when the timer expires. ( timings can be other than 5 and 6 minutes )
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The Honeywell Y6630D Wireless Room Thermostat does this, although I think 1/2 hour not 5 minutes, the Horstmann HRFS1 Programmable Room Thermostat does not, after finding the fault I started to read instructions, and it seems only the expensive models have this feature. But look at adverts and the Honeywell Y6630D Wireless Room Thermostat does not advertise that it has the safety feature or that it has anti-hysteresis software, you need to read the installation instructions carefully to find this out.
I found if the Horstmann HRFS1 Programmable Room Thermostat missed a command to heat it would just sit there doing nothing for what seemed a very long time, moving it closer to the receiver so it was without question within range. Until you changed the temperature it seemed to do nothing, once missed it just keep heating or cooling.
With 5 programs per day, and selectable either all days same or 7 different commands for each day of the week it seemed exactly what I wanted. However walking into the house at 27°C or at 12°C was some what alarming with my at that time 90 year old mother living on her own. Using two thermostats does get around the 12°C problem, if batteries fail on one, unlikely it will also fail on the other at the same time, but the 27°C problem there is no way around, likely it would have been even higher if not for the old TRV heads.
The old head marked * 1 2 3 4 5 6 is not very good at keeping a room to a set temperature, set to 3.75 the hall TRV will still allow the hall to hit 20°C in time and switch off the boiler, in that case it is the wide temperature range that it operates in which is wanted, open front door and radiator goes full on to recover the heat lost, but before it operates the wall thermostat the radiator is only warm, I would estimate it starts to close at around 17°C but not fully closed until 21°C which for that radiator is what I want.
The electronic heads however are very different, set to 21°C although wide open at 17°C and fully closed at 22°C it takes time into account so set at 21°C after reaching the temperature is holds it spot on that temperature, only things like opening the door to the hall will let it drop, and that is not the fault of the TRV head, it is because the main thermostat has switched off the boiler.
So now with electronic TRV heads and two wall thermostats the rooms will neither over or under heat. The problem was mother could not correct fault when it went wrong, now living with mother if it fails we would know and correct, when we lived 7 miles away she would get cold or hot, some times the carers would phone me, but it seems the carers do what they are told, and if make sure room is at a reasonable temperature was not on their remit, then they did nothing.
P
Peter Martinez
I just got an email back from Honeywell. I had described my application and asked them to confirm that I would be correct to order MT4-230S-NC. They say they cannot advise on product selection and invite me to type my postcode into their "Find an installer" web page!
No matter. I have learned enough here. Thanks to those who helped me, especially Bernard. I am going to unsubscribe now, so I don't think I will see any more posts.
Peter
That's pretty ****e. It's true that your questions are mostly answered in the documentation that's available, but I'd expect them to direct you to that documentation, not tell you to pay someone else. It doesn't encourage me to pay the premium to buy Honeywell products when alternatives are available; I thought part of the premium might pay for better support...
They're not going to stick their necks out going to specify Adobe half naked DIY concoction. That is why they have an ok installer network and pretty clear documents on what this hardware does.
Quite simply, if you can't work it out front the specs, then you probably canny be trusted to get it right further dorm the line. It will cost them more in wasted time and aftersales support than it's worth.
Quite simply, if you can't work it out front the specs, then you probably canny be trusted to get it right further dorm the line. It will cost them more in wasted time and aftersales support than it's worth.
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