Secondary Consumer Units and Connectivity

Hello,

Option 2 would be my choice.
I would install a switch fuse at the intake position in the main building to supply yoy treatment rooms rated at 63a. If you should wish to sub meter at a later stage it's easily done. The retain the existing consumer unit in the house. The main isolator will of course, control both buildings.

The earthing arrangement will be determined by your electrical engineer.

Regards,

NA

Hi,

This does seem to be the path of least resistance in terms of interference from the main house. The items being used in the treatment room will mainly be the shower and heating in the winter. The lighting is all LED, and the balance of mains usage will be negligible in terms of laptop etc.
 
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The treatment room bathroom is the only place that has an electric shower. I seem to remember that they talked about replacing the CU in the main house for something lot more substantial and then putting in place an 80A MCB to feed the the secondary CU, which I am assuming will contain its own RCD's. I am not too sure now. My reason for asking about this option, was that it seemed to be the easiest way to supply power, but...it may be too much load on a 100A CU, when things are in operation, hence option 2.
In view of what I said before, I'm rather surprised to hear that your Option 1 was consdiered by electricians. Apart from anything else, as I think BAS was implying, I'm not at all sure that you would find 80A MCBs for any domestic CU. Many manufacturer's only go up to 50A, although at least a couple do 63A ones - but I've never seen anything bigger than that. Assuming that your current CU is adequate/sufficient for you main house needs, it also would seem to be an unnecessary hassle and expense to replace it, just so that the second CU could be fed from it.
With regards to earthing. I am fairly sure that there is already adequate earthing in the main house, and that along with the cable from the house the treatment room that there is also an earth cable installed.
Maybe - but the issue of earthing arrangements for outbuildings is a complicated, and sometimes controversial, business, and needs expert design - particularly when, as clearly will be the case, there are to be water pipes in the outbuilding.

Kind Regards, John
 
In view of what I said before, I'm rather surprised to hear that your Option 1 was consdiered by electricians. Apart from anything else, as I think BAS was implying, I'm not at all sure that you would find 80A MCBs for any domestic CU. Many manufacturer's only go up to 50A, although at least a couple do 63A ones - but I've never seen anything bigger than that. Assuming that your current CU is adequate/sufficient for you main house needs, it also would seem to be an unnecessary hassle and expense to replace it, just so that the second CU could be fed from it.

I may be wrong, but I'm fairly sure that this is what they said. I've just had a look on the internet, and you can indeed buy 80A MCB's. BUT, surely this would impact the load on the CU in the main house. (Not too sure about this.)

You are right. The process of changing a perfectly working consumer unit to a new one would involve additional expense that is not really required at present and could throw up a lot of additional issues. I will have to change it when the conservatory and kitchen go in, but this is not going to happen for a year or so. My priority at present is to get the treatment room up and running.


Maybe - but the issue of earthing arrangements for outbuildings is a complicated, and sometimes controversial, business, and needs expert design - particularly when, as clearly will be the case, there are to be water pipes in the outbuilding.

Agreed, that there will be a discussion to be had on this with the electrician, however I am intrigued by the term controversial. Are there conflicts between electrical regs and building regs that I need to be aware of?

I'm about to post up this job on the internet.

Wanted

Qualified electrician to carry out the following work.

Main House

Connect a mains isolation unit to the main feed coming into the house and then connect a 5 way henley block to feed 2 consumer units.

Outhouse

Connect a new consumer unit to 6 circuits in an outbuilding,

Commission and test ensuring that all earthing requirements are met.

Should I be adding anything else?
 
I may be wrong, but I'm fairly sure that this is what they said. I've just had a look on the internet, and you can indeed buy 80A MCB's. BUT, surely this would impact the load on the CU in the main house. (Not too sure about this.) ... You are right. The process of changing a perfectly working consumer unit to a new one would involve additional expense that is not really required at present and could throw up a lot of additional issues.
Fair enough. However, even if 80A MCBs which will fit domestic CUs exist, it still strikes me as a very odd way to do it, particularly if it involves the (otherwise unnecessary) replacemnt of a CU.
I will have to change it when the conservatory and kitchen go in, but this is not going to happen for a year or so. My priority at present is to get the treatment room up and running.
You may not have to change it even then. If you simply require additional circuits which it will not accommodate, you could consider having (another) additional CU, fed from Henleys.
Agreed, that there will be a discussion to be had on this with the electrician, however I am intrigued by the term controversial. Are there conflicts between electrical regs and building regs that I need to be aware of?
The 'differences of opinion' don't really relate to conflicts between regulations. The main issue relates to whether one uses ('exports') the earth of the house's electrical installation for the outhouse, or whether one gives the outhouse it's own totally separate earthing sysem, with local earth rod(s). There are pros and cons of both (in terms of safety) and which is considered better/safer will usually depend upon the specific circumstances of your situation - although not all electricians will necessarily agree in any particular case!

Kind Regards, John
 
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Fair enough. However, even if 80A MCBs which will fit domestic CUs exist, it still strikes me as a very odd way to do it, particularly if it involves the (otherwise unnecessary) replacemnt of a CU.

The more I think about it, the more it doesnt make sense to me either. This was a conversation that was had 2 years ago!

You may not have to change it even then. If you simply require additional circuits which it will not accommodate, you could consider having (another) additional CU, fed from Henleys.

Worth considering, but I think that when this is tackled, I would like a refresh of the general electrics in the house. Its an old cottage. that has been cobbled together over the years, and it wouldnt hurt.


The 'differences of opinion' don't really relate to conflicts between regulations. The main issue relates to whether one uses ('exports') the earth of the house's electrical installation for the outhouse, or whether one gives the outhouse it's own totally separate earthing sysem, with local earth rod(s). There are pros and cons of both (in terms of safety) and which is considered better/safer will usually depend upon the specific circumstances of your situation - although not all electricians will necessarily agree in any particular case!

Thats interesting to know! Makes no sense to me, but interesting!

I've had three responses to my ad already, and they will be coming tomorrow to have a look.
 
Worth considering, but I think that when this is tackled, I would like a refresh of the general electrics in the house. Its an old cottage. that has been cobbled together over the years, and it wouldnt hurt.
Fair enough.
Thats interesting to know! Makes no sense to me, but interesting!
I could attempt to explain some of the issues, if you wanted, but you probably don't want/need to know about them. The most important thing for you to understand is that you might not get the same opinion from different electricans, yet none of them may necessarily be 'wrong' (in terms of regs or anything else). I would suspect that, particularly given the presence of plumbing in the outhouse, electricians would probably be more inclined to advise the second option I mentioned (having a separate, local, earthing system for the outhouse) - but I may be wrong!

Kind Regards, John
 
Not to worry, by the time you makeup your mind we'll be working to the eighteen edition :LOL:

NA
 
God I hope not. I've just spent the summer landscaping!
Assuming you're talking about the separte earthing of the outhouse, I don't think that would impact significantly on your landscaping. On the other hand, if they went with the other option (exporting the house's earth to outhouse) and decided that the earth cable already installed (between house and outhouse) was not adequate in size for that purpose, then they might have to dig up your whole garden to install a new cable!

Kind Regards, John
 
Not to worry, by the time you makeup your mind we'll be working to the eighteen edition

No way Jose! This is being done come hell or high water in November, unless 18th edition comes out before then, in which case I'm screwed!

Can you believe, this was started in January 2011!

The plan was to add an out house at the end of the garden with 3 rooms. One for me when I was working from, one for my wife and a bathroom. In addition, we were going to redo the kitchen.

During the first six months, it became apparent that the house had subsidence, rising damp in 3 walls and inadequate ventilation. What started with a decent budget was very quickly swallowed up with groundworkers rectifying everything for 5 months. We had to stop once the groundworks had been completed in September 2011, once we hit three times our budget. Ever since then we have been saving up every few months and finishing areas. We have finally got to the stage where we are ready to complete the out house, as this summer the garden was a priority for the children.

We've spent our life savings renovating a lovely cottage, in a beautiful part of the country, that once the kids leave will be a lovely place to live.

As I'm spending money that is hard earnt and saved laboriously, I do tend to try to understand the financial impact on each task, and approach it like I do for work.

It will be finished one day!
 
Assuming you're talking about the separte earthing of the outhouse, I don't think that would impact significantly on your landscaping. On the other hand, if they went with the other option (exporting the house's earth to outhouse) and decided that the earth cable already installed (between house and outhouse) was not adequate in size, then they might have to dig up your whole garden to install a new cable!

Its 25mm, so it shouldn't be.

However now that you say that, the run is 140m. If memory serves me right, there is a draw in one of the service ducts.....
 
Not to worry, by the time you makeup your mind we'll be working to the eighteen edition :LOL:

No way Jose! This is being done come hell or high water in November, unless 18th edition comes out before then, in which case I'm screwed!
Knowall does seem to have a rather odd fixation over the publication of the eighteenth edition of BS7671.
Last I heard he believed ring final circuits would be replaced by radials.
He doesn't have the decency to let us savour the amendment 1 of the 17th edition after spending our hard earned money.
If history is anything to go by the 18th edition will be published in about 10/15 years time, in any case I wouldn't worry too much about it - there is not much more than can change.....can they?
 
Its 25mm, so it shouldn't be. However now that you say that, the run is 140m. If memory serves me right, there is a draw in one of the service ducts.....
You previously seemed to indicate that there was an earth cable separate from the power (L & N) one. Is that what you are talking about, or is it, perhaps, 3-core 25mm²?

Do you really mean 140m or, as in your initial post, 40m? If it's really 140m, that's a very long way, and could lead to problems with regulations regarding maximum permissible voltage drop. Given that there will be lighting in the outhouse (for which the maximum permitetd voltage drop is 3%, about 6.9V), 140m of 25mm² cable would limit you to a total load of about 28A - too little for a shower, let alone anything else. Hopefully it was a typo, and you meant 4 metres!

Kind Regards, John
 
You previously seemed to indicate that there was an earth cable separate from the power (L & N) one. Is that what you are talking about, or is it, perhaps, 3-core 25mm²?

Apologies John, 140m is indeed a typo. It is 40m approx, and yes there is a separate 25mm earth cable.

I've got 6 13 amp twin mains sockets
1 lighting circuit with 36w LED lighting
1 lighting circuit with 18w LED lighting
1 lighting circuit with 15w LED lighting
1 13 amp external socket
1 9kW shower
1 exernal lighting circuit with 40w LED lighting
1 13 amp immersion heater for the sink
1 13 amp extractor fan unit

Apart from oil filled storage heating, there will only be printers, and PC's, and screens being run.
 

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