Secondary Consumer Units and Connectivity

[JohnW2]

Apologies John, 140m is indeed a typo. It is 40m approx, and yes there is a separate 25mm earth cable.

That's more like it - and, in terms of voltage drop limits, would give you best part of 100A's capacity to play with! If there is at least 25mm² worth of earth cable (quite probably more, because the armour of the cable {assuming it's armoured cable!} could also 'count'), that would probably be sufficient for 'earth exporting', if that's what is advised (but, as I said, don't bank on that!).

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BAS tends to write 'in code' sometimes

That's where you so often go wrong.

as regards your Option 1, I think it unlikley that any electrician would consider that design, even if (s)he could find an 80A MCB and a CU into which it would fit. I think, but cannot be certain, that such is what he was trying to imply.

AAMOF I do think it unlikely, but if I had wanted to say that I would have written it, not tried to imply it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Wanted

Qualified electrician to carry out the following work.

Main House

Connect a mains isolation unit to the main feed coming into the house and then connect a 5 way henley block to feed 2 consumer units.

Outhouse

Connect a new consumer unit to 6 circuits in an outbuilding,

Commission and test ensuring that all earthing requirements are met.

Should I be adding anything else?

Yes.

Those circuits are new - installation of them and the CU are notifiable, so you might like to add

"Falsify a notification through their competent person scheme that they did all of the work".


You should also check to see if notification applies to the WC, and connections to drainage etc.

 

[slipperyunit]

That's more like it - and, in terms of voltage drop limits, would give you best part of 100A's capacity to play with! If there is at least 25mm² worth of earth cable (quite probably more, because the armour of the cable {assuming it's armoured cable!} could also 'count'), that would probably be sufficient for 'earth exporting', if that's what is advised (but, as I said, don't bank on that!).

Thanks John. I will update once the electricians visit and quote me happy!

 

[slipperyunit]

Yes.

Those circuits are new - installation of them and the CU are notifiable, so you might like to add

"Falsify a notification through their competent person scheme that they did all of the work".


You should also check to see if notification applies to the WC, and connections to drainage etc.

Currently, every single piece of cable is visible, except for the one buried underground, which can be tested to everyones satisfaction, so I dont think that this will be a concern.

Drainage has already been passed by building control.

BAS. I would like to thank you for your very kind comments, and would commend your policing of this forum, from blaggards like myself.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I never thought you were a blackguard - just someone who seemed to be unaware of some important things.

 

[slipperyunit]

Of course I'm unaware, that's why I'm on this site!

Thanks for the pointers.

Got to go, Dallas is on.

Yeeee Hawww!

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks John. I will update once the electricians visit and quote me happy!

You're welcome. In view of the complications which BAS is attempting to introduce, I suppose the most obvious question is why you are not going back to the electrician(s) who undertook the first fix (including burying the feed cable) to complete the (seemingly unavoidably much-delayed) job - in which case they could presumably sign the declarations to BAS's satisfaction.

If, as I suspect may well be the case, there is a good reason why you cannot (or don't want to) utilise the original electricians, I don't really know what BAS thinks would be a 'solution'. Hopefully, he's sufficiently on the same planet as the rest of us to not be thinking that all the existing work should be ripped out and everything started again! In the real world, tradesmen and professionals of all flavours are, for one reason or another, always having to pick up and complete work that someone else started.

Kind Regards, John

 

[slipperyunit]

John.

In a perfect world I would go back to the original electricians, except that I don't know who they were!

They were contracted to the groundworkers who excavated the garden and buried the piping where the cable went through.

The groundworkers were also contracted to the main building company, which went into administration in 2012, and the director that I know emigrated to Australia in January of this year.

Surely for the buried cable there is a suitable test that would satisfy the objection that BAS is referring to?

Very often in my industry, we pick up after various trades have visited, only to see the abominations left behind. In my game it doesnt pay to provide obstacles, but to look for solutions, regardless of fault, because a delay doesn't help me, and would only cause my blood pressure to rise!

 

[JohnW2]

In a perfect world I would go back to the original electricians, except that I don't know who they were! They were contracted to the groundworkers who excavated the garden and buried the piping where the cable went through. The groundworkers were also contracted to the main building company, which went into administration in 2012, and the director that I know emigrated to Australia in January of this year.

As I said, I suspected there would be a reason like that.

Surely for the buried cable there is a suitable test that would satisfy the objection that BAS is referring to?

As you say, testing it is no problem. However, little short of digging up the garden (or use of very sophisticated equipment) would be able to confirm that it is buried at an acceptable depth throughout its length, that there are no dodgy joints along it's length etc. - and I suppose that's what BAS is thinking of.

Very often in my industry, we pick up after various trades have visited, only to see the abominations left behind. In my game it doesnt pay to provide obstacles, but to look for solutions, regardless of fault, because a delay doesn't help me, and would only cause my blood pressure to rise!

As I said, picking up the ends of an already-started job is happening all the time, in all trades and professions, and all one can do in such situations is to apply common sense in order to achieve as good a solution as possible, even if it cannot be 'ideal'. If you discuss this with electricians who come to quote, I'm sure that at least some will not perceive the major (insoluble') issue that BAS seems to be seeing.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

John.

In a perfect world I would go back to the original electricians, except that I don't know who they were!

They were contracted to the groundworkers who excavated the garden and buried the piping where the cable went through.

Did they not issue an EIC for their work?

And what about all the circuits in the outbuilding? Got an EIC for those?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

However, little short of digging up the garden (or use of very sophisticated equipment) would be able to confirm that it is buried at an acceptable depth throughout its length, that there are no dodgy joints along it's length etc. - and I suppose that's what BAS is thinking of.

And could be what any electrician will be thinking of.

 

[JohnW2]

Did they not issue an EIC for their work? And what about all the circuits in the outbuilding? Got an EIC for those?

Can one issue an EIC for a piece of buried cable that's never been connected to anything or for a number of circuits that have never been connected to a source of power or energised? I would have thought not, and hence that this is the problem the OP (and his new electricians) will have to find a realistic solution to.

Kind Regards, John

 

[syl]

Given that there will be lighting in the outhouse (for which the maximum permitetd voltage drop is 3%, about 6.9V)

sticking to the 'voltage drop limit' specified in Appendix 12 is simply one way of satisfying 525 (per 525.3). If one can demonstrate that one's lighting equipment is being supplied with an adequate voltage for proper functioning, then one can satisfy 525 via 525.1 and/or 525.2.

Is the latter quote actually true? Would mean the 3% drop can be ignored most of the time.

 

[slipperyunit]

As you say, testing it is no problem. However, little short of digging up the garden (or use of very sophisticated equipment) would be able to confirm that it is buried at an acceptable depth throughout its length, that there are no dodgy joints along it's length etc. - and I suppose that's what BAS is thinking of.

I have an invoice for the cable thats installed. And I can honestly say that the cable in the ducting is one complete length, as I was present when it was installed. Surely an undertaking along with proof would be enough.

Also, wouldnt an enhanced continuity test prove that there were no joins, in the same manner that RF signal degrades per metre over RG59 cabling? Or am I being naive here?