Veritas R8 PIR problem

[garrymum]

Hi guys

We have a Veritas R8 alarm system. This morning we noticed that walking into the kitchen did not activate the part alarm unset procedure. I performed a walk test and both the kitchen and the living room PIR are not working.

The red light in the PIR still works, it is just not activating the walk test procedure. Are PIR's self powered with an internal battery or do they take power from the main alarm panel? The reason I ask is I have put quite a few chipboard screws in the upstairs chipboard floor to cure loose / squeaking boards, and am now thinking worst case scenario that some how a screw has pierced a cable. But if the PIR takes power from the panel this hopefully cannot be the case as the red light in the PIR still comes on upon detection.

Can PIR's fail but the red light still activate?
Could this be a problem with the main alarm panel? Is there any other tests which I could carry out to narrow down the problem?

TIA

 

[joe-90]

Try actually setting the alarm and then see what happens. Walk tests are sometimes a bit unpredictable.

The PIRs are powered from the panel.

The chances of shorting both PIRs so that the normally closed contacts are both bridged isn't even worth thinking about.

 

[garrymum]

Try actually setting the alarm and then see what happens. Walk tests are sometimes a bit unpredictable.

The PIRs are powered from the panel.

The chances of shorting both PIRs so that the normally closed contacts are both bridged isn't even worth thinking about.

Hi, thank you very much for the reply.

I have tried setting the alarm (both Part and Full set) and neither the kitchen or the living room PIR activate the alarm.

So, you think it's very unlikely that a screw has hit one of the cables?

 

[joe-90]

The PIRs will both have their own cables. The chances of shorting both in just the same way is unheard of. The chance of both internal and external sirens failing at the same time is equally unlikely. Have you had any interruptions to your mains supply? Sometimes voltage spikes will jamb the microprocessor.

 

[garrymum]

The PIRs will both have their own cables. The chances of shorting both in just the same way is unheard of. The chance of both internal and external sirens failing at the same time is equally unlikely. Have you had any interruptions to your mains supply? Sometimes voltage spikes will jamb the microprocessor.

The door contact on the front door and the PIR in the dining room still trigger the alarm.

We have not had any interruptions with power.

 

[Spark123]

I take it you know which zones the 2 u/s PIRs are on, if you (isolate first so it is running on battery power) take the cover off the panel, (you may need to enter your code as it will tamper). Pop a digital volt meter (needs to measure 12vDC) across the alarm terminals for the zones and get someone to walk in front of them. What happens - do you see a change in voltage?

 

[garrymum]

I take it you know which zones the 2 u/s PIRs are on, if you (isolate first so it is running on battery power) take the cover off the panel, (you may need to enter your code as it will tamper). Pop a digital volt meter (needs to measure 12vDC) across the alarm terminals for the zones and get someone to walk in front of them. What happens - do you see a change in voltage?

Thanks, will try that this evening when there is someone to do the walking!!

Should the voltage read 0 (zero) when the PIR is not active and a positive voltage when motion is detected?

If the voltage remains the same for both in-active and active does this indicate a break in the cable (even though visually the PIR does seem to be working as the red light does illuminate)?

Many thanks

 

[garrymum]

I take it you know which zones the 2 u/s PIRs are on, if you (isolate first so it is running on battery power) take the cover off the panel, (you may need to enter your code as it will tamper). Pop a digital volt meter (needs to measure 12vDC) across the alarm terminals for the zones and get someone to walk in front of them. What happens - do you see a change in voltage?

Managed to test this at lunch time. Alarm panel is not far from the lounge PIR so managed to activate PIR and check the voltage. The voltage remains the same (Zero) when the PIR is active / inactive.

Guess this points to the cable...but why does the PIR still appear to work with the red light coming on once triggered?

 

[joe-90]

Disconnect the zone wires from the panel that go to the PIR and check it with the ohms range.

 

[saxondale]

Try actually setting the alarm and then see what happens

she already had are you not listening

The PIRs will both have their own cables. The chances of shorting both in just the same way is unheard of

no it isnt - it happens all the time

Pop a digital volt meter (needs to measure 12vDC) across the alarm terminals for the zones and get someone to walk in front of them. What happens - do you see a change in voltage?

if she did I would be very worried - what voltage did you expect to see across a "volt free " relay ?

Disconnect the zone wires from the panel that go to the PIR and check it with the ohms range

testing what ? it might be a short between poles (er thats tested for by volts not ohms)





O/P your first thoughts were correct - assuming you havnt been meddling with the programming somewhere you`ll have screwed into a cable

 

[joe-90]

So you are saying that the OP has screwed screws into two separate cables in such a way that the NC wires are bridged but neither tamper nor power is compromised? Rubbish. The guy is messing with the programming and has stuffed it up.

Oh and the continuity check was just to check that there was a continuity. Do you know Anything at all about testing and fault finding? (obviously not )

 

[RF Lighting]

When are you two going to grow up?


What's to say that the two detectors are not sharing an 8 core cable?

 

[joe-90]

When are you two going to grow up?


What's to say that the two detectors are not sharing an 8 core cable?

What are the odds that the relevant cores are linked out by two separate screws?

 

[saxondale]

What's to say that the two detectors are not sharing an 8 core cable?

what joe doesnt know (because he doesnt get out enough) is this same question was answered last week on another forum

turned out it was an 8core

 

[saxondale]

So you are saying that the OP has screwed screws into two separate cables in such a way that the NC wires are bridged but neither tamper nor power is compromised? Rubbish. The guy is messing with the programming and has stuffed it up.

Oh and the continuity check was just to check that there was a continuity. Do you know Anything at all about testing and fault finding? (obviously not )

you never heard of a short between poles (well of course you havnt, why should you have) or multicore cable ?

my fault finding ability isnt in question, certainly not by some half wit like yourself who couldnt even understand the opening post now #### off like you keep promising