Warmfront telling me porkies??!!

[transam]

Well I dunno ?? way I see it or heard it Eaga administer a closed shop policy.

Same thing go's on in Scotland with the small £300 grants ?? think Tonyboy said about it in a previous post !

Same old story really some goverment minister , who probably knows very little about anything presents some scheme , that was thought of by some quango ,who see an oppurtunity to make a few squid funded by the tax payer ,not only by administering the scheme but by also fleecing installers by charging them to become registered to work on the scheme .

Way I see it if the customer is elligable for the full grant they should be able to get who they like with in reason !

 

[vulcancontinental]

I can only tell you what I know. I've heard and read a lot of tripe about the scheme and when nobody takes the trouble to answer it it gets accepted as fact.

I will say that the way the jobs are done varies from region to region and I'm lucky as where I am it's well run, good fitters and nice work.

Several companies bid to run the scheme for the government and eaga won.

Why them, I guess because they came in at the lowest bid.

They invited contractors to bid for the work and those who could handle the number of jobs wanted and the insurances etc decided on a schedule of rates and that was it. there were not enough big companies so eaga were allowed to set up their own, Iguana, to handle some of the work at the other companies rates. eaga were not allowed to have their own company in the beginning because of the possibility of an incestuous relationship of passing work to their own subsidiary but there simply wasn't enough contractors to handle the installs and some were ripping the eaga off by loading up quoted.

I went to one, a Glow-Worm SwiftFlow where the client had been asked for a £1400 excess over the £2700 grant and it was a straight swap! Iguana used to get those where the other contractors were playing greedy pigs.

Don't know about the £300 scheme but I think any independent contractor can apply. Scotland is different, BG run the scheme up there now.

 

[expertgasman]

VC, after my last pose, it did occur to me that I didn't actually know the actuall process of the scheme. I don't intene to slag you off, and working as a subbie doesn't automattically make you a cowboy, and YES, I've seen some serious carp by independant installers.

The comment about there being only a requirement for 3 areas to be heated is intersting. On the fairly recent situation where the client had no rads in their lounge, the clients told me (I KNOW, I KNOW), that the assesor or surveyor said the grant wasn't big enough to cover a rad in the lounge, as they hadn't had one previously. I told them that they should contact EaGA, but as usual, they feel disinclined because it is a "free" job, and they were grateful for a new boiler.

So, VC, your last comments did clarify the relationship between EAGA and Iguana, i.e. they are the same. And the (limited admittedly) paperwork that I have seen suggests that they are making some tidy profit.

Do you, or anyone else, know what the daily labour rate is?

 

[londonboy]

VC, after my last pose, it did occur to me that I didn't actually know the actuall process of the scheme. I don't intene to slag you off, and working as a subbie doesn't automattically make you a cowboy, and YES, I've seen some serious carp by independant installers.

The comment about there being only a requirement for 3 areas to be heated is intersting. On the fairly recent situation where the client had no rads in their lounge, the clients told me (I KNOW, I KNOW), that the assesor or surveyor said the grant wasn't big enough to cover a rad in the lounge, as they hadn't had one previously. I told them that they should contact EaGA, but as usual, they feel disinclined because it is a "free" job, and they were grateful for a new boiler.

So, VC, your last comments did clarify the relationship between EAGA and Iguana, i.e. they are the same. And the (limited admittedly) paperwork that I have seen suggests that they are making some tidy profit.

Do you, or anyone else, know what the daily labour rate is?

Vulcan may correct me but as far as I'm aware it varies dependant on the area.

 

[vulcancontinental]

Expertgasman,

It’s no problem, no offense taken.

I’m a subbie surveyor, not installer, my knees and back tell me when I do do an install that it’s a young man’s game. Wish I still had the love of it as there’s nothing I liked better than installing.

There are three essential zones like I said. I see you’re in the NE so right on eaga’s doorstep. I strongly advise your client to ring WarmFront customer services and tell them.

The surveyor, possibly new as they’ve taken a lot of direct guys on, has it wrong.

The client must be warmed by a source of heat fed from the boiler excluding any other source of heat in the room i.e. a gas fire. I know people are wary of being thought greedy but they’re entitled to it and should have it and actually eaga I find do want to give what is required. Trouble is human beings, training, bloody targets etc make people rush and it word needs to get back to remind the surveyor. See private message.

It’s public money and all the spec is available with a Freedom of Information request but they’d probably send one anyway (it’s long).

The surveyor should take no notice of the cost of the job; it’s nothing to do with him. He has to fulfil the spec in the most cost effective manner and that’s it. i.e. a balanced flue WM boiler rather than a vertical flue or condensate pump or anything extra and not absolutely necessary.

One thing that can help and many surveyors don’t know or sometimes don’t need to know is that if a job goes into excess many but not all councils will help pay the additional sum. The client has to take the letter detailing the excess to the council who sometimes will help as they do not want their constituents cold either. Some will pay whatever, some have a limit, some will ask for financial details of the applicant and some just don’t help at all. It’s not fair or unfair it’s just the way each council uses separate energy efficiency money from government in their funding.

No, eaga run the scheme – Iguana, now renamed eagaheat is a wholly owned subsidiary company. Hard though it may be to believe eagaheat are more closely audited, scrutinised and inspected for quantity and quality of work than the independent contractors I find (I repeat, I FIND) - that may not be the case in every area.

To you the profit may be tidy but to a major company with the overhead they carry it shrinks quickly. Also things like every job has to be cross-bonded to latest spec is included in the cost, not something an independent has to do. Something like 85% of all rubbish of each job is recycled rather than tipped, another thing an independent doesn’t have to do (this may vary in area). An independent may shin up a lean-to roof or lean out a window to make good a flue, if the eaga H&S inspector catches the scheme fitters doing it he’s gone. Even to watching them unloading materials and setting up from a car across the road to make sure he lifts correctly and does a proper risk assessment before starting work etc – if not, he’s toast. It’s happened. Scaffold, ladders and safety harness, now roofers for slates, it goes on the job cost.

We have an inspector in a neighbouring area that will not allow the fit-from-inside PRV fittings if he cannot get up there to see whether there is cement around the 22mm hole. Fit from inside flues just not permitted as he cannot inspect whether there is cement around the outer duct. It varies.

Interestingly I just learned the Baxi HE BBU is now on the scheme but only for use in certain cases and special permission has to be sought from eaga with the circumstances detailed in writing as this is a very expensive boiler compared to a WM boiler. Looking at the install instructions and the unit itself (and a 10mm condensate tube) not sure I’d want the thing in my living room with the condensate pump cutting in and out.

Yes I do or did know what the daily rates are. Trouble is its years old and rates have gone up once and down twice I think since then. I don’t think I would tell you anyway as that might be a commercial confidence, I’m not sure. Bet you could find out though with a FOI request. It certainly does vary area to area but not as much as I’d thought and some costs in the NE and NW were higher than in the south I recall.