Why is the plumbing system the way it is here?

[LeeUK]

Hi

I have just bought a house to renovate in england after 5 years in France

In France I have a cold feed, from that it goes off to the taps and one goes to a hot water tank

the hot water tank (electric) as well as an inlet (cold) it just has the one outlet (hot)
this then feeds the hot taps by the inlet pressure

simple, no messing, dead easy

why is it not the case here
crap copper tanks wit ha 'jacket' that have to be high up in the house
then a rubbish electric shower that trickles out so you have to have a shower head that stings you just so you get some water on you

why cant I have a simple cold in, hot out water tank for less than £200

 

[astarquitefrankly]

you can except for the £200 bit, was your cylinder fed from a tank in france? if you want it unvented (fed directly by mains water) you will need pressure vessel, temp relief and blow off but im sure this would have also been the same in france.

 

[LeeUK]

the tank had a direct cold feed and a pressure valve on the outlet

200l tanks from £100
valves are about £7

I think i'll import one

 

[gremlin16]

No doubt the water regs get chucked out of the window

 

[simond]

You can but your home insurance will be invalid and you won't be Building regs compliant - unless your imported cylinder and valves have been certified for use in the UK.

Many thousands of homes in the UK already have the type of system you have 'discovered' in France, mine included. They were being fitted in the UK for many years before you left.

The difference is, they comply with the regulations in the UK. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

 

[LeeUK]

I am happy to do it this way (comliant or not)

the method I want to use would cause less problems if any

ooh you musnt do it like that, what a load of rubbish
just because a so called expert says so then in years to come some other expert says you can after all


where can I get this type of boiler here then, any site links?

edited to add -
being in France wouldnt it have to conform to euro regs?
if so this would be ok for england, would it not

 

[simond]

You asked why you couldn't buy a direct unvented cylinder over here for £200.

I suggest this is because they are more expensive over here, because you are not allowed to fit imported units without UK approvals.

If you want to bring one over and fit it, who cares? Providing you live in a detached house and my children don't come round on a sleepover, you can do what you like as far as I am concerned.

The law in this country does not protect cretins from themselves, and long may that be the case.

 

[HarrogateGas]

I am happy to do it this way (comliant or not)
the method I want to use would cause less problems if any

If you have such strong opinions and all the answers then why seek advice on an internet based help forum??



Stay in France I say, there are enough arrogant sods in the country already.

 

[dextrous]

Op, while you're at it, you could try installing that thing in Greece (also an EU country) that killed a couple of children on holiday while they slept through CO leakage.

On the whole, it tends to be old blighty that follows EU law to the letter far more than many other member states. Curiously, many of the EU regs were designed to prevent potentially hazardous installations within existing and new EU countries, one of which being certain elements of plumbing and heating systems. It may well be the case that the system you want to install is entirely unsafe, or that it is safe within the constraints of the local French water system. Thus a direct transfer to use within the UK may be entirely inappropriate.

ooh you musnt do it like that, what a load of rubbish
just because a so called expert says so then in years to come some other expert says you can after all

Doesn't occur to you that it may be the other way round

 

[EddieM]

OK, so the OP hasn't how shall we say it put it too well. But I have to somewaht agree with him in terms of, almost everywhere else I've been in Europe France, Switzerland, Austria, Germany ..... maybe not Spain Have direct mains pressure hot water.

AFAIK (May well be rubbish) The cold water tanks that a lot of us "enjoy" are a) The allow for some water if it is cut off. Never been cut off in my living memory. b) allow for sedimentation in t'old days when water supplies weren't as clean as they could have been.

So why haven't we universally swapped over? Surely wouyld save a fiar amount of electricity on all those power shower pumps?

 

[dextrous]

Eddie, they may well have mains pressure hot water as you say. But that isn't to say that they use the unvented cylinder alluded to in the op's post. It may well be the case that most, if not all, of the installations use cylinders that do comply to what would be acceptable here.

In the UK we are swapping over more and more - the use of combi boilers and unvented cylinders is becoming more widespread year on year, and many posts on this forum refer to these systems far more than replacing with old cylinders.

As to what in what percentage terms, I suspect that most of the places you have been to have been either modern or modified, and that you are thus getting a disproportionate view of the situation. As for the speed of updating systems, I cannot be sure and may well be talking through my rear orifice, but since we tend to import many of our fuels and unlike France and it's large Nuclear electrical provision, we may not have quite as much cash available for subsidies for modern technological installations.

 

[glasgowgas]

to echo Eddiem`s sentiments as per Spain

all the new builds and a lot of existing homes have unvented cylinders,
with a Pressure Relief Valve only.

no pressure reducing valve, no strainer, no temp/pressure relief, no exp vessel and no tundish

all fitted in a cabinet in the fitted kitchen

the local brit plumber who re sited my fathers in his home in spain said
the new unit cost 120 euro`s and they only expect them to last 5 years ish

this was AFTER it split causing 2500 euros damage to kitchen, downstairs bedrooms et al

with the exception of the tprv i have retro fitted everything else on his resited unvented

so to LEEUK hopefully this is a cautionary tale

 

[LeeUK]

I did a bit of health & saftey and risk assessment so I try and use a fair bit of common sense and wouldnt put it where it will cause much damage

I have seen these tanks placed as high as 20ft off the ground bolted to a wall over a doorway = alarm bells

I wouldnt expect them to last long, 5 years or so but if I was to pay 500+ I would expect them to last a bit longer

 

[dextrous]

I dont know how a 300 litre (max) water tank can cause 2500 worth of damage, may have cost a couple of hundreds worth then repalced the whole lot

If it ruined a floor plus the decoration and furnishings in rooms below adjacent to it, plus water gets into chipboard based kitchen cupboards, coupled with the fact that it doesn't just hold 300 litres as mains water will continue to flow through it until the supply is cut off, I can see easily where 2500euro damage comes from (including the cost of its replacement)

I wouldnt expect them to last long, 5 years or so but if I was to pay 500+ I would expect them to last a bit longer

Bit confused here - you're asking for details of a couple of hundred quid's worth of cylinder, not 500

 

[LeeUK]

fair enough

a previous post refered to them not lasting long, and as they are 500+ here I would expect them to last longer but doubt they will be any better than the cheaper ones I have seen