Easiest way to find the radiator flow "order"

[gaswizzard]

Besides, all that was done, was quote a certain reference document.

Then are you saying you take no notice of the gas industry documents?.

The TT calculation was not a "quote" but a worked example of how these figures are derived , obviously you don't agree with the IGE/UP documents?

 

[bengasman]

The TT calculation was not a "quote" but a worked example of how these figures are derived , obviously you don't agree with the IGE/UP documents?

You do need to brush up on your English mate, you don't seem to be able to read straight forward sentences.
I clearly stated two things:
1. The document's calculations are correct, at least as far as I know.
2. The calculations, correct as they may be, do not show, let alone prove, why changing the dropt test duration from 2 minutes to 100 seconds would endanger the safety, because some of the parameters are nothing more than somebody's choice.

But that is all a deviation from the original subject.
You still have not explained how you balance a system without Draytons, nor what the result is when people open the trv's fully, nor what you actually measured over the boiler F&R during your last benchmark completion, nor what instrument you used to get the readings.
Surely a man with your enormous experience knows how important it is to stay focussed on the job and finish it properly before starting on something else.
Be a man, and don't try to wiggle out of things.

 

[gaswizzard]

In the same fashion, the aforementioned calculations of tt only indicate how they came to the standard. They do not, by any stretch of the imagination, demonstrate let alone prove, that the situation would be unacceptabley more dangerous if the time was set at 100 seconds in stead of 2 minutes.

Really?

But by all means, do present proof right here, right now showing that either of my convictions is wrong.

Okey dokey.

1) 0.033 m/3 installation volume with a 2mb pressure drop would release 0.0028 m3/h of gas over 100 seconds.

2) 0.033 m/3 installation volume with a 2mb pressure drop would release 0.0019 m3/h over 120 seconds.

As you can see a pressure drop of .0028 m3/h would exceed the maximum permitted leak rate of 0.0025 m3/h for domestic appliances.



3mb drop over 100 seconds would release 0.00423 m3/h

 

[gaswizzard]

Surely a man with your enormous experience .

Well thank you kindly.

 

[bengasman]

...As you can see a pressure drop of .0028 m3/h would exceed the maximum permitted leak rate of 0.0025 m3/h for domestic appliances...

Excellent example for proving my point.
The calculation is entirely correct ( like I said )
The underlying basis i.e. the 2.5 litre gas that is allowed to escape, is entirely arbitrary; somebody just took that figure and called it right. (like I said )
Whether that 2.5 litres will lead to a dangerous concentration depends on the size of the "room" and the amount of ventilation.
If they were considered at all, these values will also just have been chosen.
It's just like the speed limit; somebody decided 30 was good for in town.

 

[gaswizzard]

The .0025m3/h MPLR is a calculation in itself which is based on room volume , these calculations are also derived from readable gauge movement , maybe you could explain this?

You seem to argue the toss for the sake of it which do you no favours whatsoever , MJN gave a first class run down of the balancing precedure to which you had to pick holes that were obviously not there , it makes you look foolish which in my mind you certainly are not , time for a brush up bengasser.

 

[gaswizzard]

You still have not explained how you balance a system without Draytons, nor what the result is when people open the trv's fully, nor what you actually measured over the boiler F&R during your last benchmark completion, nor what instrument you used to get the readings.
Surely a man with your enormous experience knows how important it is to stay focussed on the job and finish it properly before starting on something else.
Be a man, and don't try to wiggle out of things.

I balance dt across the radiators using my HAND , sometimes I might use the V2.

Why are you making a song and dance regards balancing a domestic heating system? , do you find it a time consuming chore? , i'm done and dusted in 10 minutes max unless some fool has used undersized pipework.

 

[bengasman]

The .0025m3/h MPLR is a calculation in itself which is based on room volume ...
Which, again, is an arbitrarily chosen size. No matter how wide you spread the net, how extensive you make the calculation, or how deep you go, underneath it all there are some arbitrarily chosen factors on which the whole case is built.
It is the same for the ENTIRE ISO standards system that is at the base of any and all science known to man; derived units may have an explanation or justification, but ALL the base units are 100% arbitrary.

However, you still did not answer any of my questions on the original subject. Why do you keep hiding behind distractions?

 

[gaswizzard]

I've already answered your questions.

Exampe , 15/60 circulator 12 rads fitted with TRV4s along with correct sized pipework , all lockshields are fully open with a 10c dt across the rads , the only valve I had to crack down was the 22mm belmont rad valve fitted to the bathroom towel rail (my house) , the same applies to all of my installs.

Would you like a discussion on balancing a commercial heating system? , cos that might be a tad more interesting.

 

[gaswizzard]

, these calculations are also derived from readable gauge movement , maybe you could explain this?

:

I'm waiting?????????????????

 

[gaswizzard]

You still there? google won't be your friend on this one.

 

[bengasman]

I've already answered your questions.
Exampe , 15/60 circulator 12 rads fitted with TRV4s along with correct sized pipework ,

That actually only covers about 0.5 of situations. You conveniently forgot to mention what you would do in the 99.5% of cases where there is not trv4 set on anything less than fully open.

all lockshields are fully open with a 10c dt across the rads

Typical for a wide boy; the drop over F&R has been 20K for the past 7 years, but that doesn't bother you because nobody needs to tell you nuffink as you've been in the game for sooooooo long.
This is exactly why guys like you can deliver very bad work with all the years of experience; you totally fail to acknowledge that the world has moved on. How on earth can you quote a 10 degree drop over rads as an answer to the F&R value on your last benchmark?

I balance dt across the radiators using my HAND , sometimes I might use the V2.

You conveniently forgot to mention what you measured over the F&R on the boiler; this, incidentally, is the only temperature with regards to balancing that is required on the benchmark, nothing there about rads.

... these calculations are also derived from readable gauge movement...

Nonsense, they are not derived, just stated.

 

[gaswizzard]

I give up.

 

[doitall]

It makes absolutelty zero difference where you start, which also shows that he is clueless.

Actually not so Ben.

If the Index radiator (thats the furthest from the PUMP) then all the rads before it should just need tweaking.

 

[doitall]

Of course one could always fit double regulating valve and binder points to measure the flow of water if they was serious about this.