Feeling electricity in water

JohnW2 · 21 Dec 2014

londoniese said:
also you said the problem was between he floor and the water because when wearing crocks I could not feel anything , but the tiles were no wet at all, so how would my feet would be a conductor only when touching the water, and why would not feel anything just by walking on the tiles and not opening the taps?

You added this bit after I replied. I don't fully understand. What water did you 'feel the electricity' in (i.e. where was this water), and what part of your body did you feel it in?

Kind Regards, John

333rocky333 · 21 Dec 2014

Londoneise, i think your best way forward.
Rather than getting too bogged down with things that cannot be explained without on site inspection.
I would wait till the electrician does his testing asap and ensure he gives you a written copy of the results.
feel free to then put a copy on here ( ommiting any personal details like name and adress) and it will assist reassuring you that it was posibbly just an induced voltage and possibly now nothing to worry about.

londoniese · 21 Dec 2014

JohnW2 said:
londoniese said:

also you said the problem was between he floor and the water because when wearing crocks I could not feel anything , but the tiles were no wet at all, so how would my feet would be a conductor only when touching the water, and why would not feel anything just by walking on the tiles and not opening the taps?

Click to expand...

You added this bit after I replied. I don't fully understand. What water did you 'feel the electricity' in (i.e. where was this water), and what part of your body did you feel it in?

Kind Regards, John

it was just the hands under the running water, tingling sensation , worse on small cuts. it came from bath and sink. even in standing water in bath (may be because plug hole has metal) when I was wearing my cocks the sensation went. the floor was fry, it is tiled but I did mention before that water might have come between floorboards.

londoniese · 21 Dec 2014

333rocky333 said:
Londoneise, i think your best way forward.
Rather than getting too bogged down with things that cannot be explained without on site inspection.
I would wait till the electrician does his testing asap and ensure he gives you a written copy of the results.
feel free to then put a copy on here ( ommiting any personal details like name and adress) and it will assist reassuring you that it was posibbly just an induced voltage and possibly now nothing to worry about.

sorry but what is an induced voltage?

londoniese · 21 Dec 2014

I posted a picture of the old fuse box, was it wise to change it?

I found this:
induced dangers induced voltage can produce extremely high voltages that can be lethal if proper precautions are not observed such as earth grounding.

333rocky333 · 21 Dec 2014

Induced voltage is basically a voltage on the water pipes that is present. even though the pipes are not normally actually directly connected to the electric system.
Sometimes due to a fault agrivated as possibly in your case by water present where it shouldnt be.
or sometimes pipes running close to electric cables.
A majority are harmless though its not something that should be ignored.

Basically You would only feel electric between 2 points, could be hand to hand, hand to foot anything really, when you just walked on the floor, even if wet it was basically, one point you stood on so you felt nothing, but as soon as you touched a second point, possibly the tap or the water then you felt it.

That is why you can see birds sit on power lines, without getting electricuted as theres only one point of contact.

What your electricians done is basically linked all the metal to now basically create one point, now you are not tecnically touching a second point at different potential, so you do not feel a shock.

333rocky333 · 21 Dec 2014

londoniese said:
I posted a picture of the old fuse box, was it wise to change it?
.

Your old one would in most cases be adequate and safer than a majority that exist.

your new one is more better so if you can afford it then yes it is an improvement

londoniese · 21 Dec 2014

333rocky333 said:
Induced voltage is basically a voltage on the water pipes that is present. even though the pipes are not normally actually directly connected to the electric system.
Sometimes due to a fault agrivated as possibly in your case by water present where it shouldnt be.
or sometimes pipes running close to electric cables.
A majority are harmless though its not something that should be ignored.

Basically You would only feel electric between 2 points, could be hand to hand, hand to foot anything really, when you just walked on the floor, even if wet it was basically, one point you stood on so you felt nothing, but as soon as you touched a second point, possibly the tap or the water then you felt it.

That is why you can see birds sit on power lines, without getting electricuted as theres only one point of contact.

What your electricians done is basically linked all the metal to now basically create one point, now you are not tecnically touching a second point at different potential, so you do not feel a shock.

Thanks for this, what I do not understand is that at the beginning I was told it could be major

flyingsparks · 21 Dec 2014

JohnW2 said:
Taylortwocities said:

A couple of points of order. Firstly, if you look at the circuit diagram of an RCBO (with a functional earth connection) you will see that it is exactly the same as an RCD or RCBO that does not have a functional earth (FE). The test circuit provides a LINE>NEUTRAL connection through a resistor to test the trip mechanism of the device.

Click to expand...

Thanks for confirming. As I said, that was my understanding - so, unfortunately for him, DS's understanding was still wrong even in relation to RCBOs.

Taylortwocities said:

This then begs the question as to what the FE is for… I must admit that I did not know, but I found the following excellent article that I have pleasure in plagiarising and providing for your illumination|: ...

Click to expand...

Yes, I'm familiar with that explanation about the purpose of FEs, and it sounds like a reasonable argument/explanation. What I've never understood is why the concept of FEs seems to be restricted to RCBOs. At first sight, exactly the same considerations exist in relation to RCDs but I have never seen or heard of an RCD with a FE (although maybe they exist?). Do you have any explanation for this?

Kind Regards, John

Old MEM RCDs have a FE John.

flyingsparks · 21 Dec 2014

londoniese said:
333rocky333 said:

Induced voltage is basically a voltage on the water pipes that is present. even though the pipes are not normally actually directly connected to the electric system.
Sometimes due to a fault agrivated as possibly in your case by water present where it shouldnt be.
or sometimes pipes running close to electric cables.
A majority are harmless though its not something that should be ignored.

Basically You would only feel electric between 2 points, could be hand to hand, hand to foot anything really, when you just walked on the floor, even if wet it was basically, one point you stood on so you felt nothing, but as soon as you touched a second point, possibly the tap or the water then you felt it.

That is why you can see birds sit on power lines, without getting electricuted as theres only one point of contact.

What your electricians done is basically linked all the metal to now basically create one point, now you are not tecnically touching a second point at different potential, so you do not feel a shock.

Click to expand...

Thanks for this, what I do not understand is that at the beginning I was told it could be major

It still could be major. This is not being insulting but you clearly do not have a good understanding of electricity or how it works. Trying to explain fundamental principles on an Internet forum is not easy. Right at the start of this thread we said you need an electrician to do some basic tests to make sure there was nothing untoward. I think now you need to have the electrician do the tests and post up a photo of the results. From this we could tell a lot about your installation and more importantly his competence.

flameport · 21 Dec 2014

A possible problem here:

Untitled

flameport
21 Dec 2014
1

JM2 · 21 Dec 2014

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JohnW2 · 21 Dec 2014

flyingsparks said:
It still could be major. This is not being insulting but you clearly do not have a good understanding of electricity or how it works. Trying to explain fundamental principles on an Internet forum is not easy. Right at the start of this thread we said you need an electrician to do some basic tests to make sure there was nothing untoward. I think now you need to have the electrician do the tests and post up a photo of the results. From this we could tell a lot about your installation and more importantly his competence.

Indeed. I think that's the view/advice we've all been trying to give all along. As I recently wrote:

JohnW2 said:
We obviously don't know - but I'm saying that, if I were a betting man, then, yes, my money would probably be on it not having been a 'major problem'. However, given that we can't be certain that it was not a major problem (i.e. potentially dangerous) one would obviously want to have it checked out, not gamble on 'gut feelings' ....... However, as everyone has said, from the very start of this thread, the correct and sensible approach had to be to get an electrician to check out your electrical installation, since there was always the possibility that something potentially very dangerous was going on. Whether or not any appropriate tests have yet been done, I'm not so sure - from what you have said, it sounds that they may not have been.

I would personally have advised getting the appropriate tests done first before making any decisions about new work - but, as you (and everyone else is saying) the important point is that (if they haven't yet been done) the appropriate tests should be done ASAP.

Kind Regards, John

JohnW2 · 21 Dec 2014

flyingsparks said:
JohnW2 said:

Yes, I'm familiar with that explanation about the purpose of FEs, and it sounds like a reasonable argument/explanation. What I've never understood is why the concept of FEs seems to be restricted to RCBOs. At first sight, exactly the same considerations exist in relation to RCDs but I have never seen or heard of an RCD with a FE (although maybe they exist?). Do you have any explanation for this?

Click to expand...

Old MEM RCDs have a FE John.

Fair enough - that's why I wrote/asked "(although maybe they exist?)". However my question remains. Unless I'm missing something, the argument for RCBOs having FEs seem to be equally applicable to RCDs - but few, if any, of the millions of RCDs out there, or being manufactured today, have FEs. Any idea of the explanation, or of what I'm missing?

Kind Regards, John

londoniese · 21 Dec 2014

JohnW2 said:
flyingsparks said:

It still could be major. This is not being insulting but you clearly do not have a good understanding of electricity or how it works. Trying to explain fundamental principles on an Internet forum is not easy. Right at the start of this thread we said you need an electrician to do some basic tests to make sure there was nothing untoward. I think now you need to have the electrician do the tests and post up a photo of the results. From this we could tell a lot about your installation and more importantly his competence.

Click to expand...

Indeed. I think that's the view/advice we've all been trying to give all along. As I recently wrote:

JohnW2 said:

We obviously don't know - but I'm saying that, if I were a betting man, then, yes, my money would probably be on it not having been a 'major problem'. However, given that we can't be certain that it was not a major problem (i.e. potentially dangerous) one would obviously want to have it checked out, not gamble on 'gut feelings' ....... However, as everyone has said, from the very start of this thread, the correct and sensible approach had to be to get an electrician to check out your electrical installation, since there was always the possibility that something potentially very dangerous was going on. Whether or not any appropriate tests have yet been done, I'm not so sure - from what you have said, it sounds that they may not have been.

Click to expand...

I would personally have advised getting the appropriate tests done first before making any decisions about new work - but, as you (and everyone else is saying) the important point is that (if they haven't yet been done) the appropriate tests should be done ASAP.

Kind Regards, John

Yes you are right I do not have any understanding about electricity and that's why I came here.im a woman who is just trying to fix a problem.the electrician will come back to do full test.i do appreciate all the feedback I got here. At least I have a safer installation than before as circuits have been isolated.i was told that before the washing machine and boiler were not protected

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Feeling electricity in water

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