which wiring regulations apply? (new build)

qwert098 · 10 Dec 2010

Hi

If building on a development commences prior to the 17th edition of the wiring regulations coming into force, do the 16th edition still apply for all properties within that development even if completed and sold in 2010?

Thanks in advance

1john · 10 Dec 2010

No, well that is what my NICEIC inspector told me at the time of the change when I had started a project quite a bit before.

qwert098 · 10 Dec 2010

thanks

does anyone know if the regulations provide for this and which regulation it'd be?

(the reason i ask is that i had an electrician do some work for me and he pointed out the the builder's had not provided a RCD on the lighting circuit for the bathrooms. The builders are claiming that the 16th edition apply as the development started prior to then. They claim that their next stage of building on the site will conform to the 17th edition. Is this right?)

thanks

1john · 10 Dec 2010

If the installation was certified after the introduction of the 17th edition it should be compliant with that edition, departures however could be listed on the certificate, have you got the certificate??

wingcoax · 10 Dec 2010

How long did this build take? It should have been notified to local building control anyway. If that long ago it would have been ok under 16th ed. In my opinion it should really have been certified under 17th ed if completed in the last four years.

DetlefSchmitz · 10 Dec 2010

In England, if the building regulations request was made before the 17th edition was mandatory, and the electrical design was also completed before that date, then the project was allowed to be completed to the 16th edition. There is however a time limit (3 years springs to mind.)

Scotland may be, and probably is, different.

qwert098 · 10 Dec 2010

1john said:
If the installation was certified after the introduction of the 17th edition it should be compliant with that edition, departures however could be listed on the certificate, have you got the certificate??

I'm sure i've got it somewhere...off the top of my head i think the electrics were completed this summer.

wingcoax said:
How long did this build take? It should have been notified to local building control anyway. If that long ago it would have been ok under 16th ed. In my opinion it should really have been certified under 17th ed if completed in the last four years.

It may have taken a while as they have been building on the site for a few years albeit that each part of the site has been released in stages.

DetlefSchmitz said:
In England, if the building regulations request was made before the 17th edition was mandatory, and the electrical design was also completed before that date, then the project was allowed to be completed to the 16th edition. There is however a time limit (3 years springs to mind.)

Scotland may be, and probably is, different.

Hopefully that's the case as i'd like to get another one over them / catch them yet again bending the truth.

....you'd have thought they'd simply add a RCD for a quiet life.

I've also been told that fire-rated downlights aren't needed as there's a fire-rated/guarded ceiling above the normal ceiling. Is that correct too?

again - thank you everyone

1john · 10 Dec 2010

When you get the certificate, post back here, you can complain to the governing body of the installation electricians. If this was done by an niceic contractor and you complained to the niceic they would get a second opinion on the work I believe.

ban-all-sheds · 10 Dec 2010

All it says in BS7671:2008 is "Installations designed after 30th June 2008 are to comply with BS 7671:2008".

Clearly if you're doing something like T5 you can't be expected to change the designs part way through to fit a new version of the Wiring Regs.

But I think for a housebuilder to follow that principle for noddy little domestic installations in houses that he hadn't started building in 2008 on the grounds that he'd already designed the installations is pretty poor, and unprofessional.

As soon as he could reasonably have changed the design for houses where the electrical work hadn't started he should have.

ban-all-sheds · 10 Dec 2010

All it says in BS7671:2008 is "Installations designed after 30th June 2008 are to comply with BS 7671:2008".

Clearly if you're doing something like T5 you can't be expected to change the designs part way through to fit a new version of the Wiring Regs.

But I think for a housebuilder to follow that principle for noddy little domestic installations in houses that he hadn't started building in 2008 on the grounds that he'd already designed the installations is pretty poor, and unprofessional.

As soon as he could reasonably have changed the design for houses where the electrical work hadn't started he should have.

Risteard · 11 Dec 2010

As ban all sheds has stated any installation designed after the cutoff date is required to comply with the 17th Edition. Someone else's remark about commissioning after the 17th Edition came into force is incorrect. Installations can still be constructed and inspected and tested to the 16th Edition so long as they were also designed to the 16th Edition before the cutoff date for designing to the 17th Edition.

However if it wasn't designed to the 16th Edition then I don't see the relevance that building of other houses had occured during the reign of the 16th Edition.

qwert098 · 11 Dec 2010

Risteard said:
As ban all sheds has stated any installation designed after the cutoff date is required to comply with the 17th Edition. Someone else's remark about commissioning after the 17th Edition came into force is incorrect. Installations can still be constructed and inspected and tested to the 16th Edition so long as they were also designed to the 16th Edition before the cutoff date for designing to the 17th Edition.

However if it wasn't designed to the 16th Edition then I don't see the relevance that building of other houses had occured during the reign of the 16th Edition.

Thanks.
How would one go about ascertaining the date on which the design took place?

qwert098 · 12 Dec 2010

i've found the certificate which says "in accordance with BS 7671, ammended 2004" and was signed 25 August 2010

but i guess it looks like the design date is the important issue.

baldelectrician · 12 Dec 2010

Check when the building warrant was applied for.

I suspect it may be before 2008.

I don't do new builds as they want to scrimp and scrape on everything- much cheapness (quality suffers).

I have seen new builds with 6mm for 8.5kw showers (and lots of insulation)

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which wiring regulations apply? (new build)

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