Help required with 2G1W lightswitch

[pford75]

Hi all - hope someone can help!

Have finally got round to fitting wall lights...have connected the first and tested...not working

The wall light is new and has just L/N/E connections into a connection strip...not fixed to wall yet so know that nothing is loose. Haven't fitted any of the other wall lights yet....assume that's not a problem?

Decided that the problem must be in the switch (there have never been any wall lights fitted before, so don't know if the switch has ever been working.

It's a 2G1W switch (ceiling light / wall lights).


Ceiling light works fine - Has switched live (black with brwn sheath) into L1 and then a short connecter from L3 to L3 on other 'Gang'.

This second 'gang' has the live (brwn) from the switched live cable into L3 and then 2 lives from other cables into L1.

All the neutrals are connected into a block.

The earths are connected to the back of the box.

Can someone explain what should go where?

Sorry if this is a little basic......

 

[riveralt]

Hi all - hope someone can help!

Have finally got round to fitting wall lights...have connected the first and tested...not working

What was there before - other wall lights or just the cable connections?

The wall light is new and has just L/N/E connections into a connection strip...not fixed to wall yet so know that nothing is loose. Haven't fitted any of the other wall lights yet....assume that's not a problem?

Depends on whether or not your wall lights are already wired and the one you picked is second inline with the other cables not connected.

Decided that the problem must be in the switch (there have never been any wall lights fitted before, so don't know if the switch has ever been working.
It's a 2G1W switch (ceiling light / wall lights).
Ceiling light works fine - Has switched live (black with brwn sheath) into L1 and then a short connecter from L3 to L3 on other 'Gang'.
This second 'gang' has the live (brwn) from the switched live cable into L3 and then 2 lives from other cables into L1.
All the neutrals are connected into a block.
The earths are connected to the back of the box.

It is unclear whether there were wall lights in place before?
If wall lights were in place before did they work with the current switching arrangement?

If it is 2G1W then you should have C and L1 on both sides.
Red (cable 1) from the permanent live at the ceiling rose of jb should go to C on the say the ceiling light switch the black should be connected to the terminal block. Brown/red (cable 2) should be connected at L1 this then goes back to the ceiling rose as switched live to the pendants live terminal. The blue from cable 2 goes to the neutral terminal block.
Link C on the ceiling rose gang with C on the wall switch gang with a piece of brown cable. Then the Brown (cable 3) goes into L1 on the wall light gang (this goes to the L on the wall light) The blue (cable 3) goes to the terminal block and then N at the wall light - CPC the same.

 

[pford75]

This is a new (2yrs old) installation.....we had the house rewired professionally, but have only just got round to fitting wall lights in this room...hence we have never seen if they are working.

There are cables for 4 wall lights - 2 of them have a single cable with L/N/E and 2 have 2 cables with L/N/E

 

[riveralt]

This is a new (2yrs old) installation.....we had the house rewired professionally, but have only just got round to fitting wall lights in this room...hence we have never seen if they are working.

There are cables for 4 wall lights - 2 of them have a single cable with L/N/E and 2 have 2 cables with L/N/E

If it is only two years since you had the house rewired, then you shouldn't have any black sleeved conductors unless you are using three core and earth. Everything should be brown blue and green/yellow.

 

[pford75]

If it is 2G1W then you should have C and L1 on both sides.
Red (cable 1) from the permanent live at the ceiling rose of jb should go to C on the say the ceiling light switch the black should be connected to the terminal block. Brown/red (cable 2) should be connected at L1 this then goes back to the ceiling rose as switched live to the pendants live terminal. The blue from cable 2 goes to the neutral terminal block.
Link C on the ceiling rose gang with C on the wall switch gang with a piece of brown cable. Then the Brown (cable 3) goes into L1 on the wall light gang (this goes to the L on the wall light) The blue (cable 3) goes to the terminal block and then N at the wall light - CPC the same.

Okay, my explanation was not that clear - sorry.

The cables coming into the switch box are as follows (ignoring earths for simplicity)

Cable 1 - Black with brwn sheath, grey with blue sheath, brown
Cable 2 - Brown, Blue
Cable 3 - Brown, Blue

There is also a short brown wire connecting terminals in the switch

BTW - There is no 'COM' on the switch...just L1,L2 & L3. I am assuming L1 is COM

 

[pford75]

Photo showing back of switch - The 'top' switch is working the ceiling lights fine.

Black cable has brown sheath out of shot.

 

[riveralt]

Okay seen the photograph - I assume that he has cut the grey cable from the three core - but the ceiling light works so forget that.
It looks like your link from L1 to L1 is okay and then you have two switched lives (browns) one of which will go to the L on one pair of the four lights and the other to the other pair.
Although you have said 2G1W (there are L2 & L3 holes) are you sure you have the two brown cables in the right terminal.

Do you have a multimeter capable of testing voltage - because if you are convinced that the cables are in the right terminals you will need to test that there is voltage across the second gang live and switched live - and if so - that there is voltage across the terminal block at the wall lights.

 

[pford75]

Thanks for your help and patience!

There is a grey from a 3 core - but this is terminated in a chock block with the neutrals - it has a blue sheath.

So, are you suggesting that I need to try moving the brown cables from L2 to L3? I thought these were the same?

Sorry - don't have a multimeter - although will now be on my next shopping list!

I'm far from being 'certain' that I have the cables in the right terminals...but this seems logical to me

 

[riveralt]

There are cables for 4 wall lights - 2 of them have a single cable with L/N/E and 2 have 2 cables with L/N/E

Have you wired your first test light to the one with 2 cables? If not are these two cables connected in a terminal block looped in?

 

[riveralt]

Thanks for your help and patience!

There is a grey from a 3 core - but this is terminated in a chock block with the neutrals - it has a blue sheath.

That is a bit odd - unless he is doubling up the neutrals - if your ceiling light is a ceiling rose then just check that the grey is in the neutral loop.

EDIT - grey neutral not odd - realised he has already used two of his three core as lives.

So, are you suggesting that I need to try moving the brown cables from L2 to L3? I thought these were the same?

Normally a 2G1W would just use L1 and L2 but sometimes they turn them around for the second gang.

I'm far from being 'certain' that I have the cables in the right terminals...but this seems logical to me

Logical often works.

 

[pford75]

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:39 pm Post Subject:
pford75 wrote:
There are cables for 4 wall lights - 2 of them have a single cable with L/N/E and 2 have 2 cables with L/N/E


Have you wired your first test light to the one with 2 cables? If not are these two cables connected in a terminal block looped in?

No!!! The wall light is connected to a single cable and the double cable is just taped off in insulation tape. not connected together...do I need to connect the double cable? Ie. brown > brown, blue > Blue, earth > earth? or is there another way of connecting them?

 

[riveralt]

This is difficult to do from afar - but based on the switch I think the wall lights are wired as follows:

The wall lights will have been set up in pairs. The first pair will have two incoming cables containing 2 brown 2 blue and 2 CPC - the second light of the two will have one set of brown blue and CPC. (Same for the second pair)
At the first wall light (with the two cables) you need to ensure that the two browns(L) are connected together on one side of the terminal block - the other side will have a brown going to the wall light. The same applies for the Blue(N) and CPC - earth.

At the second wall light the Brown L Blue N and CPC earth wire to one side of the terminal block and the wall light to the other.

If you have wired to the second wall light and the first isn't connected up at least with the two cables(L,N,E) connected then it will not work.

So wire you test wall light to the wall light position with two cables as above and test.

 

[pford75]

CPC?

 

[riveralt]

CPC?

Sorry - CPC means circuit protective conductor - your earth wire.

Been out working on lights all day - so still in electrician mode

 

[pford75]

Just checked the wires...you are right that they are situated in pairs.

Unfortunately, the 2 cables are not marked...so I just have 2 brown, 2 blue and 2 earth.

How can I tell which of the blues is the live and which is the neutral? Will it do any harm to just try a combination? I assume that the Cons Unit will just trip if I have them wrong and then I could switch the blues?