Paperwork & Notification!

[westie101]

Just a quick question.

As most know I work on the DNO side of the cut-out!
So one for the electricians

When a new circuit is installed for, say, solar panels.
Would part of the testing require a check of the supply voltage and be recorded on the paperwork?

If it were found to be high should the electrician: -
sign off the circuit as complete
or not do so until the voltage is corrected*
or merely bring it to the customers attention
or just sign it off and walk away?
If it should be recorded where is this, stated BS7671 or scheme rules

*This I do see as controversial as the supply voltage is outside the control of the electrician.

 

[JohnW2]

So one for the electricians ... When a new circuit is installed for, say, solar panels. Would part of the testing require a check of the supply voltage and be recorded on the paperwork?If it were found to be high should the electrician: -...... If it should be recorded where is this, stated BS7671 or scheme rules.

As you know, I'm not an electrician, but the installation (and EICR) documentation specified in BS7671 appears to offer a choice between recording actual supply voltage ('by measurement') or nominal supply voltage ('by enquiry') - so I guess it's probably an 'it depends' situation!

The electricians will be able to tell you what they would do if they 'became aware' of an excessive supply voltage, whether they had to record it on a documentation or not. I suspect that they would 'sign off' their work but inform the customer and/or DNO of the issue.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

When a new circuit is installed for, say, solar panels.
Would part of the testing require a check of the supply voltage and be recorded on the paperwork?

It would be noticed on the meter when carrying out the usual tests.
Only the nominal voltage is required to be entered.
There is nowhere to note the actual.

If it were found to be high should the electrician: -
sign off the circuit as complete
or not do so until the voltage is corrected*
or merely bring it to the customers attention
or just sign it off and walk away?

I would report it there and then to the DNO.

If it should be recorded where is this, stated BS7671 or scheme rules

Nowhere.

 

[EFLImpudence]

As you know, I'm not an electrician, but the installation (and EICR) documentation specified in BS7671 appears to offer a choice between recording actual supply voltage ('by measurement') or nominal supply voltage ('by enquiry') - so I guess it's probably an 'it depends' situation!

Only 'Note 1 - by enquiry' relates to the Nominal Voltage, i.e. 230V.

The electricians will be able to tell you what they would do if they 'became aware' of an excessive supply voltage, whether they had to record it on a documentation or not. I suspect that they would 'sign off' their work but inform the customer and/or DNO of the issue.

As above, no recording is required and continuing would depend on how low or, more importantly, high it was.

 

[JohnW2]

Only the nominal voltage is required to be entered. There is nowhere to note the actual.

As I wrote to westie, the EIC and EICR forms in BS7671 appear to offer you the choice to record EITHER nominal voltage ('by enquiry') OR actual voltage ('by measurement') - or do I need another trip to Specsavers?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

As you know, I'm not an electrician, but the installation (and EICR) documentation specified in BS7671 appears to offer a choice between recording actual supply voltage ('by measurement') or nominal supply voltage ('by enquiry') - so I guess it's probably an 'it depends' situation!

Only 'Note 1 - by enquiry' relates to the Nominal Voltage, i.e. 230V.

Am I going mad? Isn't that exactly what I said, and you quoted (above)? Am I missing your point?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

or do I need another trip to Specsavers?

I think so [/caution]

Only Note 2 includes the choice.

Note 1 which applies to Nominal Voltage is just 'by enquiry'.

 

[JohnW2]

or do I need another trip to Specsavers?

I think so [/caution]Only Note 2 includes the choice. Note 1 which applies to Nominal Voltage is just 'by enquiry'.

Ah, yes, you're right - I do need that trip to Specsavers - as you say 'U' ('actual voltage') doesn't have a note (i.e. I was wrong to say that it specified as 'by measurement'), whereas U0 (nominal voltage) does have a note indicating 'by enquiry' (as one would expect).

However, I don't think this alters the bottom line of anything I wrote - after all, there is no way of ascertaining 'U' other than 'by measurement', is there? The forms require an entry for "U/U0", which I take to mean that it's offering you the choice, isn't it? The only other possible interpretation (other than a choice) I can think of for "U/U0" would be "U divided by U0", but then the units indicated (volts) would be incorrect - so I'm left with the 'choice' interpretation. Do you disagree? I can well believe that most electricians always record U0, since it's easier to just write '230' every time than to have to think about/look to see what U actually was, but AFAICS that doesn't mean that the forms aren't giving the choice, does it?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Ah. I see what you mean.
Have you found another mistake?

Where it says Nominal voltage U/Uo.

Nominal Voltage, Uo is 230V therefore how can actual voltage, U apply or be entered?

 

[JohnW2]

Ah. I see what you mean.
Have you found another mistake? Where it says Nominal voltage U/Uo.

Ah, yes, it looks like 'another mistake' in BS7671 (and also GN3)

I now understand why you were confused by what I was saying - I had been 'blind' (Specsavers again?!) to the fact that it actually said "Nominal Voltage U/U0" - I hade been 'reading' it as saying "Voltage U/U0". As you say, since it actually does say "Nominal Voltage" in prose, the 'U' has no right to be there! Is it there on the forms you use, as well as in BS7671?

Apologies for having confused you.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes, the forms are the same.

I've obviously never actually noticed or taken any notice before.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, the forms are the same. I've obviously never actually noticed or taken any notice before.

Well, it's actually exactly what we've been saying about 'field testing' or 'proof reading' in relation to BS7671, wikis etc. - it sometimes takes an 'outsider' to notice things which those 'close to the material' have been looking at every day, but without 'noticing'! We've all done it!

Since the forms are also the same, this seems to be an 'across-the-board' issue. Does that perhaps mean that, at some point in former times, there was a U/U0 'choice' on the forms of the day?

Kind Regards

 

[westie101]

Or should both be recorded in the form U/Uo?

Though if you think of it as the Nominal Voltage is 230V throughout Europe, what actually is the point in recording it anyway?

 

[JohnW2]

Or should both be recorded in the form U/Uo?

I suppose that's another possibility - although,if that were their intention, they would certainly be wrong to preface the "U/U0" with the words "Nominal Voltage"!

Though if you think of it as the Nominal Voltage is 230V throughout Europe, what actually is the point in recording it anyway?

Another interesting question! The form is designed to be used for 1, 2 or 3-phase supplies, but even that's not an excuse, since the corresponding voltages would presumably be the same throughout Europe.

I suppose that the forms theoretically aren't restricted in use to installations supplied by the grid/DNOs, so there's the theoretical possibility that there could be a 'private supply' with a non-standard voltage, isn't there?

BTW, the next 'question' on the form is "Nominal Frequency", so you could ask exactly the same question about that if you wanted to

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

BTW, the next 'question' on the form is "Nominal Frequency", so you could ask exactly the same question about that if you wanted to

There is only one symbol/abbreviation 'Nominal frequency f'.