Not just too slow - you also omitted to add the VAT to make the figures comparable with Screwfix ones
Kind Regards, John
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- Thread starter dball
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Kind Regards, John
I'm sorry John, if the facts don't justify your argument.
Yes I still think £33 is a significant cost reduction to build a house. (plus savings in other area's). Added to the fact its much easier to install smaller cable will reduce labour times.
Yes I still think £33 is a significant cost reduction to build a house. (plus savings in other area's). Added to the fact its much easier to install smaller cable will reduce labour times.
I'm glad that I am essentially 'neutral'
Yes, that is one side of the debate/argument. However, we have Andy here arguing that it is radials which "waste time, money and materials"!
Whatever, as I've said, I think the debate/decision should really be on the basis of which is regarded as electrically preferable (and opinions about even that differ), not (unless the electrical arguments were totally balanced) about which is more economical in terms of time money and materials (again, opinions seem to differ).
Kind Regards, John
...and it also meant they could not use 4mm² for a 30A radial with a 3036 fuse so 6mm² would have been required instead of a 2.5mm² ring (or the imperial equivalents).
In that case, "I'm out"! You are obviously fully entitled to your viewpoint.
I'm essentially neutral because I find the arguments (electrical, safety, cost) all to be pretty finely balanced. BAS is probably right that if the concept of a ring final (with 'under-protected cable') was to first be voiced today, it would probably not stand a chance of being accepted. However, that has to be modulated by the fact that we have some 60+ years' experience of their being used almost universally (i.e. in tens of millions of installations), without any evidence of which I am aware that this, per se, has led to any significant problems. I would therefore say the the main theoretical argument against ring finals is (on empirical grounds) very weak.
Kind Regards, John
Going back to high loads on rings. When the ring final was invented did they not foresee that perhaps electric fires would be plugged in possibly within 10% of the end?
Or was it the introduction of the lower rated metric cable that has suddenly brought this about?
Or was it the introduction of the lower rated metric cable that has suddenly brought this about?
Were electric fires not generally about 1kW (if one was lucky) in those days?
Kind Regards, John
2kW was quite common, usually referred to as a 2 bar fire. 3 bars were also available but not usually used at full load.
Ah. That's a good point; so 7/0.036 was alright on a 30A 3036.
... but the 'bars' weren't necessarily 1kW were they? I'm pretty sure that I was brought up on some which were probably no more than 500W 'per bar'.
Of course, even 2kW (or even 3kW) could not, in itself, get anywhere near overloading any of the cable of a modern-compliant ring final, no matter how close to the end of the ring it was connected - it's only when multiple loads get connected near the end of a ring that a potential problem might arise.
Kind Regards, John
What 'point' are you refering to - your own?? What was the CCC of 7/0.036? Indeed, with reference to what OPD were the CCCs quoted/tabulated in those days?
Kind Regards, John
The point that the 'new' metric (4mm²) was smaller than 7/0.036 and my point about not being suitable for 30A radials with 3036s.
Googling says 7/0.036 = 4.6mm².
Pre metric cable for rings was 7/029, not 7/036.
The 2 bar electric my folks had was certainly 2kW. We didn't have a ring final though. All we had was 2 pin 15amp sockets and only two, one in each living room.
The 2 bar electric my folks had was certainly 2kW. We didn't have a ring final though. All we had was 2 pin 15amp sockets and only two, one in each living room.
Yes but my original - wrong - post was that the next size up would not have been adequate for a 30A radial.
Does anyone know what the stated CCCs of those cables were, and what OPDs those CCCs related to?
Ah, we did better than you in terms of pins, but not number of sockets. We had one 3-pin 15A socket in each of living room and 'dining room'. Each bedroom had one 5A socket, but they were supplied from the lighting circuit. The kitchen had no electricity at all, other than one pendant light.
Kind Regards, John
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