Merkel. .........the rise of the far right thanks to her idiocy

[SirGalahad]

and what a load of complete twaddle Jeremy speaks.

The zero on the dial stays in the same place. We then either have governments that are left of centre or right of centre.

The centre is always the centre.

He is trying to gloss over the fact that he and his close followers are hard left, so the young gullible voters he has bought with promises he cant deliver, dont realise what they are buying into.

No. The central ground can shift. 50 years ago, homosexuality was banned. Now its considered central ground - both parties agree with it. If we still had the central ground of 50 years ago we would consider legalising homosexuality as far left.

 

[SirGalahad]

Even more twaddle from you well done.

What has social dynamics got to do with it?

what has emotion got to do with it?

If the centre moves each time we have a new government, then that means every government since the year dot has been smack bang in the centre ground.

The reality is that the centre ground stays the same and the electorate chooses to elect either a left wing or right wing party.

It may be true that the electorate decide that they wish to vote in a left wing or right wing party as that is the majority wish at the time of voting.

Jeremy Corbyn has used his soap box rhetoric to cloud the fact that his core ideology is hard left. As evidenced by having John Mcdonnell and Seamus Milne close to him. (the marxist and the commie).

Jermey Corbyn is using all this touchy feely, gentler style of politics to put a sugar coating on his hard left, state intervention, anti establishment core values.

Ok so where do I stand. I agree with some of Corbyn policies on PFI, nationalisation but then I also agree with Tory policies on benefit restrictions.

This left/right dichotomy is an clever mechanism for people to close themselves off from debate.

 

[Doggit]

The zero on the dial stays in the same place. We then either have governments that are left of centre or right of centre.

The centre is always the centre.

Unfortunately not Notch. The odd thing about politics, is that the centre is a vague point in the middle two sides, and if say the right shifted to become the hard right, then the centre would start to move to the right by virtue of mass adjustment of social values. The party that can be on one side of the political spectrum, but also gain the support of the centre ground, wins the election, and keeps their values. Blair shifted the labour party to the right, and effectively became new conservatives, but he didn't really hold labour values. Gordon Brown took over, and started to shift the party back, but no one liked him, so he got stuffed.

 

[Notch7]

Well that's an interesting one.

What causes people to be followers of a comedian buffoon, who is a noted liar, even when they know he is talking nonsense and uses his famous buffoonery as an evasion technique, and even when he repeats the same lie that he used before, to the same people, even when they know he's lying to them?

The irony

'an evasion technique'

that is exactly what your post is, an evasion technique. Instead of continuing the discussion, have a rant about something totally unconnected.

I think we get the idea now that you like to refer to Boris Johnson as a buffoon as often as possible.

 

[JohnD]

what has emotion got to do with it?

You shouldn't ask questions then.

 

[Notch7]

No. The central ground can shift. 50 years ago, homosexuality was banned. Now its considered central ground - both parties agree with it. If we still had the central ground of 50 years ago we would consider legalising homosexuality as far left.

I would like to think acceptance of homosexuality was a cultural shift of acceptance in main society.

Unfortunately not Notch. The odd thing about politics, is that the centre is a vague point in the middle two sides, and if say the right shifted to become the hard right, then the centre would start to move to the right by virtue of mass adjustment of social values. The party that can be on one side of the political spectrum, but also gain the support of the centre ground, wins the election, and keeps their values. Blair shifted the labour party to the right, and effectively became new conservatives, but he didn't really hold labour values. Gordon Brown took over, and started to shift the party back, but no one liked him, so he got stuffed.

I understand that, but if a new party gets in power and that is then considered to be the new centre ground, at no time is there any comparison to a left or right.
What that would mean is that an encumbent government is always the centre ground.

I think there are 2 different things here.

1. over a long period cultural and economic development will cause societal shifts in the political landscape.

2. over a short period, the centre ground remains the centre ground and the country has either a left or right wing party in power in comparison to the previous party in office

The 2 things are different and Corbyn is using the 'Im the political centre ground' statement as saying I have so altered public beliefs I am the new centre ground or closer to it than reality. In truth he is hiding the fact that he is actually a far left wing anti-establishment politician and giving a false impression.

The proof of the pudding is this: if he wins and forms a labour government is anybody going to say his party is at the centre ground, or that the centre ground has shifted left and he is a moderate left wing.

 

[Notch7]

You shouldn't ask questions then.

What does that mean?

 

[SirGalahad]

I would like to think acceptance of homosexuality was a cultural shift of acceptance in main society.



The proof of the pudding is this: if he wins and forms a labour government is anybody going to say his party is at the centre ground, or that the centre ground has shifted left and he is a moderate left wing.

It was political. Or are you just trying not to accept your own argument is weakened by trying to obfuscate the reasoning.

 

[JohnD]

What does that mean?

You asked this question

what has emotion got to do with it?

And you moaned and grumbled when I responded to it.

If you don't want responses, don't ask for them.

 

[transam]

(Fact) Corbyn is a Brexiteer

And if you want to take companies back into public owner ship its easier to do if u are not an EU member

If you want to defend a run on the pound (McDonald) its easier to do it if u are not an EU member


Corbyn is a life long Socialist & its probably about time a true Socialist ran the labour party after all the Labour party is supposed to be a Socialist party

Kier Hardy trade unions & all that caper

 

[Doggit]

The 2 things are different and Corbyn is using the 'Im the political centre ground' statement as saying I have so altered public beliefs I am the new centre ground or closer to it than reality. In truth he is hiding the fact that he is actually a far left wing anti-establishment politician and giving a false impression.

I agree, how the hell can he say he's the centre with such a straight face, but I'd go further, and say he and McDonnell are more communists than socialists, McDonnell especially.

If he gets into power, then all pretence of being a centre ground party would soon disappear.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

The zero on the dial stays in the same place. We then either have governments that are left of centre or right of centre.
The centre is always the centre.

Let us go back to your original statement:
Suppose a range of issues were identified, and those issues, in isolation, were put to a representative sample of the electorate.
I dare say, a different center of political gravity would be determined for each separate issue.
So how can the center of political gravity always be in the same position?
As these issues become more prominent, or less so, or new issues arise, the center of political gravity will move.
Kankerot presented an excellent example, there are other similar issues, abortion, same-sex marriage, etc.
Different reasons will be responsible for 'shifting' the center ground. It could be despondency or disappointment with the current government, the charisma of the opposition, a national crisis, an international crisis, a perceived injustice, etc.

I suspect the demonising of refugees was responsible for a recent move to the right.
But that demonising of refugees, and the associated bigotry, fake news, human misery caused by such behaviour has caused a swing back to the left, and perhaps beyond where it was previously.

 

[Notch7]

You asked this question

And you moaned and grumbled when I responded to it.

If you don't want responses, don't ask for them.

I responded = yes

Moan and groan = none

JohnD = wont answer the question, but instead resorts to either responding with a completely different point, diverting attention, sarcasm, attacking All techniques used by politicians.

It is of no consequence to me as it is a of reflection of you.

 

[JohnD]

...twaddle from you ...what has emotion got to do with it?...soap box rhetoric ...hard ...marxist and the commie...touchy feely,... sugar coating on his hard left....

yep.

 

[Notch7]

Deleted