MR 16 Lampholders

[bolst3r]

I've had my click flameguard spots in for nearly 8 years but am finding they are starting to eat bulbs. Scolmore have sent a couple of replacements housings and more recently a bunch of MR16 Lampholders which i've replaced but I still find bulbs aren't lasting that long.

When I remove a bulb I can see the pins are dark, if I sand them with a bit of wet and dry they work again for a short period.

I was about to purchase some third-party MR 16 lampholders but wondered if they vary in quality?

I have also always used Osram bulbs but wondered if these could be the problem? Are the pins slightly different sizes between manufacturers?

Any guidance would be appreciated.

 

[ericmark]

What base is the MR16 lamp holder using? With the GU10 base I have not found any problems, with the G5.3 base I have found they can over heat and lose pressure on pins, I found moving to the cooler LED version cured the problem, but it depends if using proper transformers, or switch mode power supplies often labelled "Electronic Transformers" these will often not work with low power lamps.

Note MR16 is multifaceted reflector 16/8" across, it can be SES, GU10, G5.3 or any other base or voltage.

 

[bolst3r]

They are indeed (LV320) GU5.3. Each unit it stepped down with a 60Va transformer via a 'flow' plug-in connector (Scolmore). I've considered swapping to LED but pretty sure i'll have to remove the lamp inners, and remove the in-line transformers so they run mains voltage. Deep down I know this is the only real solution but life is a bit too hectic for that at the moment and I have 50 odd that will need doing... I guess I was hoping to overcome the bulb issue for the next couple of years until I have time for the next step.

 

[flameport]

Osram bulbs

What specific type?

Hold one up to a light source - can you see any light through the reflector, typically a pink/orange colour?

If you can, they are the wrong type.

 

[bolst3r]

I can see bright pink. The bulbs are the following spec:

OSRAM
50W
680lm
2950k
Ra 100
12v
GU5.3

I seem to remember trying a few bulbs my dad gave me which also suffered the same fate however they may also have shown pink/orange through the reflector. If the above bulbs are incorrect, which ones would I be better with and would using the wrong bulbs have damaged the connections in the lamp holder in the process?

 

[flameport]

The ones with pink/orange are dichroic reflectors, which reflect light forwards and most of the heat out the back, where it will grossly overheat the connectors and the fitting, causing them to fail.

The ones you want have aluminium reflectors, also known as PAR, and are totally opaque, reflecting all of the heat and light forwards and away from the connector.

Dichroics are designed for use where the lamp is used in the open air, and where objects in front are likely to be damaged by the heat. Examples include lighting for pictures and similar objects.
Totally unsuitable for use in enclosed fittings in a ceiling.

 

[333rocky333]

Im not familiar with the fittings you have but some older fittings, both 12volt and Gu10 mains, when Fire rated down-lights were introduced, were designed to take Aluminium backed lamps, although it was in the instructions, people failed to read it, or did not want to pay the extra cost.
Because of the enclosed can and the fire proofing bit, the temperature built up inside, causing premature lamp holder failure, the aluminium back lamp reduced this by throwing the heat forward
Sometimes the G5.3 holder is better than the dual holder which does G4 and G5.3 as it has a hole rather than a slot and I believe makes a better connection, reducing the lamp wattage also reduces the temperature.

 

[seasickstevie]

... the dual holder which does G4 and G5.3 as it has ... a slot ...

Well, I've learned something today.

 

[bolst3r]

Im not familiar with the fittings you have but some older fittings, both 12volt and Gu10 mains, when Fire rated down-lights were introduced, were designed to take Aluminium backed lamps, although it was in the instructions, people failed to read it, or did not want to pay the extra cost.
Because of the enclosed can and the fire proofing bit, the temperature built up inside, causing premature lamp holder failure, the aluminium back lamp reduced this by throwing the heat forward
Sometimes the G5.3 holder is better than the dual holder which does G4 and G5.3 as it has a hole rather than a slot and I believe makes a better connection, reducing the lamp wattage also reduces the temperature.

Very interesting. The original lamps came with bulbs so never really thought about it. Obviously it was a few years before they needed replacing and at that point I just bought more of what I considered to be the same. This is where the problem looks to have started. I will now be able to look for the correct bulbs and replace any damaged holders, hopefully keeping this lot going for a few more years. Just hope I can find suitable PAR bulbs...

 

[bolst3r]

So i've found the following bulbs, I can't actually find any listed as PAR but assume these are correct? A question about these, I've noticed that at a friends house they have a dark soot on the ceiling around their spotlights, could this be caused by these type of bulbs or is that something totally different?

https://www.any-lamp.co.uk/philips-brilliantline-alu-50w-gu5-3-12v-mr16-36d-14717

 

[Taylortwocities]

@bolst3r I think you are taking the wrong approach.

This may have passed you by, but there is a programme under way to phase out halogen lamps. This has already started, see HERE, so you'll be faced with having to change the types of lamp in the near future.

You should be changing the whole lot for LED lamps. Remove any voltage changing devices, aka electronic transformers, chnage the bases to GU10 and install LED lamps.

 

[bolst3r]

@bolst3r I think you are taking the wrong approach.

This may have passed you by, but there is a programme under way to phase out halogen lamps. This has already started, see HERE, so you'll be faced with having to change the types of lamp in the near future.

You should be changing the whole lot for LED lamps. Remove any voltage changing devices, aka electronic transformers, chnage the bases to GU10 and install LED lamps.

I wasn't aware of this ban but changing to LEDs was on my list of jobs however with nearly 50 in the house this is massively expensive and with a young family time is limited, I was looking at a stop-gap, until I've got more time...

I was under the impression converting my existing lamps is the cheapest option, it's what my Dad has just done but he said his lamp holders needed modification at the same time, this sounds like a very time consuming task. Are there like-for-like fittings/bulbs?

Replacing the entire fitting whilst quick would cost a bomb.

If I do decide to upgrade the lamps can I do one at a time and mix them on the same circuit/switch? I could sit on an evening and do one or two at a time, replacing them over a few weeks...

Would I also have to replace the switch for a trailing edge so they are dimmable?

Whilst I appreciate upgrading is the way to go it's not without challenges

 

[Taylortwocities]

You’d need to tackle one room at a time.

As I said, you have 12v lamps and there will be some sort of converter box or boxes. It’s unlikely that is compatible with LEDs and its easier/ cheaper to remove them and go for mains LEDs.
If you have dimmers, these may needs changing for LED compatible types.

If you want a quick fix then stick with what you are planning. You can still buy the old-style tungsten lamps and these were “eurobanned” several years ago. So halogen lamps will still be available for several years to come. I’ve got a box full here that aren’t going to be used any more.

 

[bolst3r]

You’d need to tackle one room at a time.

As I said, you have 12v lamps and there will be some sort of converter box or boxes. It’s unlikely that is compatible with LEDs and its easier/ cheaper to remove them and go for mains LEDs.
If you have dimmers, these may needs changing for LED compatible types.

If you want a quick fix then stick with what you are planning. You can still buy the old-style tungsten lamps and these were “eurobanned” several years ago. So halogen lamps will still be available for several years to come. I’ve got a box full here that aren’t going to be used any more.

Replacing the internals was always the long term plan. Each unit has its own inline transformer which would need removing so they are mains LEDs but that's not a job for right now. I just want suitable bulbs and holders that aren't going to pack-up every few weeks. Sounds like using the correct bulbs is the answer in the short term.

The bulbs previous listed are they PAR as the spec doesn't say? Also are they likely to cause soot marks on my ceiling or have my friends likely got some other issue going on?

 

[flameport]

The bulbs previous listed are they PAR as the spec doesn't say?

They are PAR, or aluminium reflectors.

I've noticed that at a friends house they have a dark soot on the ceiling

Dirt in the air which sticks to the ceiling. Caused by filthy houses that are never cleaned, people smoking, and having gaps around the lights which allow airflow through them.

his lamp holders needed modification at the same time,

Buy some of these: https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p34667
which replaces the existing terminal block. Disconnect the transformer, and connect the mains wiring to the new terminal block.
Will take slightly longer than replacing the existing lampholder. A few minutes per fitting, hardly any more than replacing the existing lampholder.
GU10 LED lamps are typically £2-£3 each. Total cost per fitting well under £5 even with dimmable lamps.

with nearly 50 in the house this is massively expensive

They are certainly expensive to run. 50W each instead of 5W LED.
Those 50 are costing you 30p too much for every hour they are on.
Even if only used for an unlikely 1 hour a day, that's over £100 per year wasted.