EU and astra zeneca, still going on

[IT Minion]

The Philistines thought the same as you Notch.


If size mattered to David (as it did with the Israelite's) he wouldn't have had the courage to take on Goliath. Especially with just a staff, 5 stones and a sling. David knew size doesn't matter, it's HEART, COURAGE, and COMMITMENT that matters.19 Jul 2015
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5 Powerful Life Lessons from David and Goliath - Addicted 2 Success

David and Goliath is such a good story because everyone knows that Goliath normally obliterated his opponents.

Also, David was wrong, it was appropriate use of ranged weaponry that made the difference.

Finally, it's a work of fiction. You might as well say that trusting the force is the key to success.

 

[motorbiking]

I think there needs to be recognition that the EU introduced a mechanism for member states to block export, so arguing its Italy's fault for blocking export is a bit simplistic, particularly when other EU countries backed it and it was claimed by the EU that it was only done due to AZs failure to deliver an EU contract. Secondly, we know that getting it right from a manufacturing point took many months in the UK and the UK signalled very early on that any working vaccine would get emergency approval quickly. The same cannot be said of the EU.

 

[sooey]

I've posted this reply to Djangwhatshisname here because the thread he posted this in is now locked. His post in bold, my reply in normal type.


I'm curious, if a woman has recently caught AIDS, what symptoms will she be showing? Because, the science says you can catch it from her, so she must be showing symptoms...

A few other viruses that can be caught from healthy looking people with no symptoms:

• Typhoid fever
• Typhoid Mary
• Epstein–Barr virus
• Clostridioides difficile
• Cholera
• Chlamydia
• Poliomyelitis
• Tuberculosis

First of all, asymptomatic spread generally refers to spreading without bodily contact, through coughing and sneezing and such. Sh*gging someone counts as bodily contact where I come from.

The only virus on your list is Poliomyelitis, the rest are all caused by Bacteria.
According to the World Health Organisation Poliomyelitis is spread as follows.

"The virus is transmitted by person-to-person spread mainly through the faecal-oral route or, less frequently, by a common vehicle (for example, contaminated water or food) and multiplies in the intestine"

 

[EddieM]

I've posted this reply to Djangwhatshisname here because the thread he posted this in is now locked. His post in bold, my reply in normal type.


I'm curious, if a woman has recently caught AIDS, what symptoms will she be showing? Because, the science says you can catch it from her, so she must be showing symptoms...

A few other viruses that can be caught from healthy looking people with no symptoms:

• Typhoid fever
• Typhoid Mary
• Epstein–Barr virus
• Clostridioides difficile
• Cholera
• Chlamydia
• Poliomyelitis
• Tuberculosis

First of all, asymptomatic spread generally refers to spreading without bodily contact, through coughing and sneezing and such. Sh*gging someone counts as bodily contact where I come from.

The only virus on your list is Poliomyelitis, the rest are all caused by Bacteria.
According to the World Health Organisation Poliomyelitis is spread as follows.

"The virus is transmitted by person-to-person spread mainly through the faecal-oral route or, less frequently, by a common vehicle (for example, contaminated water or food) and multiplies in the intestine"

You can't catch AIDS as it is a syndrome. You can however become infected with HIV, which may develop into AIDS.

 

[sooey]

There is a lot of debate in the scientific community as to whether or not the HIV virus exists, mainstream will tell you it's settled but it isn't.
Somebody on here was slagging off Dr Vernon Coleman and calling him a quack for his view that it doesn't exist.
Perhaps they should have read the following, which is a quote given in answer to that very question.
The exact same argument can be made for the so called covid virus, many scientists say that it has never been isolated, the Centre for Disease Control in America and others have admitted it hasn't, though the mainstream press will all tell you that it has.

"This is a very controversial question, even among AIDS rethinkers. I'll let Dr. Ettiene de Harven, the first scientist to isolate and produce an electron micrograph (photo) of a retrovirus, respond with expert technical information first. Dr. de Harven is Emeritus Professor of Pathology at the University of Toronto, and achieved the above mentioned isolation while serving as a researcher at Sloan Kettering Cancer Institute in New York. He is also a member of Alive & Well's Advisory Board."

Dr. de Harven writes:

"No, I do not think that HIV exists because I have never seen any acceptable scientific proof of its existence, especially in AIDS patients. All the claims to the contrary are opinions based on identification of so-called markers for HIV, all of which have been found to be non-specific to HIV. These non-specific markers include the enzyme reverse transcriptase (RT) and the antigen p24 which are commonly believed to be HIV specific but are in fact not.

"Moreover, since so-called HIV has never been purified (even according to HIV's original discoverer, Dr. Luc Montagnier), its specific RNA has never been actually identified nor sequenced. 'Viral loads' measured after PCR amplification are therefore not scientifically acceptable as the RNA or DNA they measure is only assumed to be specific genetic components of HIV, but have never been properly identified as such.

"Of course, I am quite familiar with the many reports on electron microscope (EM) pictures of 'HIV particles.' Indeed, these photos show particles which could very well be taken as retroviruses on the basis of their ultrastructure alone. But all these particles have only been found in complex cell cultures [blood added to culture dishes containing cancer cells and stimulated with various chemical agents], never in an AIDS patient.

"Even if there were an acceptable EM of an HIV isolate, it is not possible through EM to distinguish between exogenous and endogenous retroviruses [EXOGENOUS means derived or developed from external sources, having a cause external to the body; ENDOGENOUS means produced from within, originating within an organ or part]. HIV is believed to be an exogenous retrovirus, something that has yet to proved. It could very well be that these hyper-stimulated cell cultures release endogenous particles which have little, if anything, to do with the 'infection' of these cultures by an HIV positive patient's plasma or cells.

"Finally, it should be stressed that no researcher has ever succeeded in observing retroviral-looking particles in the plasma of HIV positive patients supposedly presenting with a high 'viral load' according to PCR measurements. "It is important to understand that electron microscopy is of practically no use to demonstrate the pathogenicity of HIV or other viruses, however, when the preliminary question is to find out whether a virus is present or absent, EM is probably the best method we have available, especially if appropriate methods for virus concentration and purification are used.

"The key question of whether retroviral particles are present in the blood plasma of positive patients presenting with high 'viral loadsÕ can be answered by EM research. If, in spite of adequate concentration attempts, the answer is no (actual virus particles are not present), this would carry important implications. If the answer is yes (virus particles are demonstrated to be present), then other non-EM methods would still have to be used to establish a possible pathogenic role for that virus."

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I think there needs to be recognition that the EU introduced a mechanism for member states to block export,

Precisely, EU introduced a mechanism for the stopping of exports. They didn't impose it, as sxturbo claims. Italy wished to stop the export and EU had created the mechanism to allow them to do so.
You seem to be bastardising the procedures of the EU to suit your narrative.

so arguing its Italy's fault for blocking export is a bit simplistic,

No-one is arguing that it was Italy's fault. They wished to block the export and the EU mechanism allowed them to. They weren't forced into it, they wanted to block the export.

particularly when other EU countries backed it and it was claimed by the EU that it was only done due to AZs failure to deliver an EU contract.

You appear to be conflating different issues. Countries have their own ability to allow or not allow the use of a vaccine. The EU also has a role to judge whether a vaccine is safe to use, but it does not force that judgement on its member states.
On the other hand, the export blocking was created by EU, because they suspected that AZ were being obtuse over the delay of the vaccines to EU, and if member states suspected that vaccines were being exported, while AZ had still not honoured its contract to EU member states had the iniative to block those exports, if they judged the exports to be unfair.
Those are two different issues. To conflate them is to cause confusion.

Secondly, we know that getting it right from a manufacturing point took many months in the UK and the UK signalled very early on that any working vaccine would get emergency approval quickly. The same cannot be said of the EU.

You could equally say that the EU were more cautious in their approval of a vaccine.
UK approved the use of AZ vaccine on 30/12/20. EU approved the use of the AZ vaccine on 29/1/21
Just simply not sufficient time difference to explain away the delay in the production of AZ vaccine in EU.
In addition, the blocking of AZ vaccine from Italy do Australia indicates very evidently that AZ are exporting vaccines from EU to places that (by Australia's own admission) have much less urgent need of them, while the fulfilment of the AZ contract to EU remains woefully unfulfilled.

 

[motorbiking]

I think if you do some background reading you will see significant differences in the strategy. When orders were placed, official comments on approval, non-cooperation, audits, exclusions. Lots of blame and finger pointing rather than collaboration.

 

[Dangee]

If you have a customer who slags off your work to anyone who will listen, then gets the hump when you say “sorry, I’m a bit busy, I’ll have to delay our booking”. What the hell did the EU expect, to be front of the queue ??????
Tradesman on here will all have had self important clients like that. Back of the queue as Obama once quoted. Turns out the EU are back of the queue. Deservedly. Macron & co should be forced, legally to apologise for spreading untruths.

 

[transam]

Even a french drugs company had to come to the UK to manufacture the vaccine

Macron was asleep

no surprise there tbh hopeless scoundrel

he also spread lies about the Oxford vaccine

blimey when he leaves office assuming he is not prosecuted for bribary or corruption he could get a job with the daily wail

 

[mitch66]

I think if you do some background reading you will see significant differences in the strategy. When orders were placed, official comments on approval, non-cooperation, audits, exclusions. Lots of blame and finger pointing rather than collaboration.

Half a page of waffle cut down with less than two lines of concise info.

Motorbiking 1-0 Himmi

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I think if you do some background reading you will see significant differences in the strategy. When orders were placed, official comments on approval, non-cooperation, audits, exclusions. Lots of blame and finger pointing rather than collaboration.

I see you disagree with me, but you can't quite put your finger on anything to disagree about, and you're incapable of providing any counter-argument.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

If you have a customer who slags off your work to anyone who will listen, then gets the hump when you say “sorry, I’m a bit busy, I’ll have to delay our booking”. What the hell did the EU expect, to be front of the queue ??????
Tradesman on here will all have had self important clients like that. Back of the queue as Obama once quoted. Turns out the EU are back of the queue. Deservedly. Macron & co should be forced, legally to apologise for spreading untruths.

But if you accept the booking, then fail to deliver what you were contracted to deliver, that's devious, and potentially unlawful.

 

[sxturbo]

But if you accept the booking, then fail to deliver what you were contracted to deliver, that's devious, and potentially unlawful.

Not if he said I'll make my best efforts to complete 80% on xx date providing it doesn't cost him anything (puts a negative on his balance sheet) and he had trouble getting the materials to complete the job or his previous job over run with unforseen circumstances or any other number of excuses that could be ascertained (death in the family, etc) so then couldn't complete by that xx date or could only could mplete 40% by then etc

 

[motorbiking]

@Bobby Dazzler Have a read of the contract and tell me the cure for such breaches. The legal opinion is well published and nothing unlawful in a supplier delaying delivery due to problems with brand new manufacturing plants. Particularly when it’s completely and comprehensively covered in the contract.

we even had the president of france out trumping trump with his fake news that it didn’t work.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Have a read of the contract and tell me the cure for such breaches. The legal opinion is well published and nothing unlawful in a supplier delaying delivery due to problems with brand new manufacturing plants. Particularly when it’s completely and comprehensively covered in the contract.

Are we going to go over old ground again and disagree about clauses in the contract?
The clauses in the contract have absolutely nothing to do with the Italian block on the export, nor the temporary stopping of the use of the vaccine due to blood clot concerns.
The contract was drawn up way before any export of vaccines was a pipe dream, and the contract would certainly not have any clauses relating to export bans of vaccines.
You do like conflating totally different discussions.