Leading brexiteer champions more immigration...

[Bod ...]

Bodd, the way to sort out a mess is to deal with the root cause.

“you just have to believe harder” is not the way to deal with a mess

I'm not against rejoining the EU. Sometimes and maybe this time someone will listen.

 

[Notch7]

I'm not against rejoining the EU. Sometimes and maybe this time someone will listen.

the problems we had whilst we were an EU member were caused by decades of British neo liberalism not EU membership.

Theoretically there are potential Brexit benefits, but we don’t have a govt with any interest in those.

 

[Bod ...]

the problems we had whilst we were an EU member were caused by decades of British neo liberalism not EU membership.

It was all about immigration for me. I initially wanted to remain but immigration needs to be controlled and the EU wasn't prepared to compromise

 

[Notch7]

It was all about immigration for me. I initially wanted to remain but immigration needs to be controlled and the EU wasn't prepared to compromise

The freedom of movement argument is really quite complex.

if you thought cheap EU Labour was causing wages to fall, real problem was capitalism using supply / demand to lower wage costs.

 

[Odds]

It was all about immigration for me. I initially wanted to remain but immigration needs to be controlled and the EU wasn't prepared to compromise

When Cameron went to the EU summit to negotiate a deal to limit immigration and was given the cold shoulder by Sarkozy in 2015, Bre*it became inevitable. The EU couldn't compromise as it was a fundamental element of a new Federal Europe and to give in to Tory demands would've meant conceding to others, like Hungary.

*although it occurs to me they could've limited freedom of movement to EU citizens and curbed the amount of migration from non-EU countries.

 

[ajohn]

It was all about immigration for me. I initially wanted to remain but immigration needs to be controlled and the EU wasn't prepared to compromise

Cameron got a loit of what he wanted. Another way of reading this is rather close to what he wanted.

EU reform deal: What Cameron wanted and what he got

David Cameron claims his EU reform deal will give the UK "special status" in the 28 nation bloc - but did he get what he wanted?

www.bbc.co.uk

It takes out much of what people moaned about and leaves people who can support themselves.

 

[Mottie]

if you thought cheap EU Labour was causing wages to fall, real problem was capitalism using supply / demand to lower wage costs.

Exactly. That’s why we need to limit supply or load a premium onto the businesses who rely on 'cheap' labour at the expense of the British worker. I know that will drive prices up but it shouldn’t always be about the bottom line.

 

[Pat ex]

Perhaps the real reason UK wants to limit immigration is two-fold:
a. it is really relating to asylum seekers. There is no agreement possible with any other country that would restrict the flow of asylum seekers to UK. That has been proven time and time again. Attempts at restricting the flow will create a market for more people smugglers to circumvent.
b. UK does not have the processes, nor the will, nor the capacity to process asylum seekers. This is proven by the inordinate increase in the time it takes to process the applications, and the lack of accommodation available to house those applicants awaiting processing.

 

[Pat ex]

When Cameron went to the EU summit to negotiate a deal to limit immigration and was given the cold shoulder by Sarkozy in 2015, Bre*it became inevitable. The EU couldn't compromise as it was a fundamental element of a new Federal Europe and to give in to Tory demands would've meant conceding to others, like Hungary.

*although it occurs to me they could've limited freedom of movement to EU citizens and curbed the amount of migration from non-EU countries.

Cameron's success or failure is not what lead to Brexit. Lies, lies and fake news is what lead to Brexit. Propoganda appealing to people's fears and prejudices, based on misunderstanding or ignoring the real problems, is what lead to Brexit

 

[Bod ...]

The freedom of movement argument is really quite complex.

if you thought cheap EU Labour was causing wages to fall, real problem was capitalism using supply / demand to lower wage costs.

Keep saying my main reason is between good and bad. I don't want bad people in my country.

Second to that is big companies with wealthy management and shareholders that pull in cheap unskilled labour to do skilled work for low wages.


I've never blamed good honest people for wanting a better life.

 

[Odds]

Exactly. That’s why we need to limit supply or load a premium onto the businesses who rely on 'cheap' labour at the expense of the British worker. I know that will drive prices up but it shouldn’t always be about the bottom line.

And yet it usually is - especially as the country looks like heading into a recession. Business has always worked on as low a wage paid as it can get away with, which is why people like Dyson bug'r off to Malaysia, i guess.

 

[Bod ...]

When Cameron went to the EU summit to negotiate a deal to limit immigration and was given the cold shoulder by Sarkozy in 2015, Bre*it became inevitable. The EU couldn't compromise as it was a fundamental element of a new Federal Europe and to give in to Tory demands would've meant conceding to others, like Hungary.

*although it occurs to me they could've limited freedom of movement to EU citizens and curbed the amount of migration from non-EU countries.

That's when my mind changed and decided to vote Brexit

 

[ajohn]

real problem was capitalism using supply / demand to lower wage costs.

The basic reason that applies to all sorts of area is similar to what happened with HGV drivers. A company wants one. They have 2 alternatives. One to employ an HGV driver. The other is to recruit some one and train them. Which do you think they would pick? There will be a salary for an HGV driver as there is for jobs in many areas. That is what people get paid. If not they would change jobs. What happens when a source is removed. Companies have to bid for workers and salaries go up. It's all pure supply and demand. There are 2 and more types of HGV driver. I'll just stick to one variation. A driver might be expected to be involved in loading and unloading. If say they drove for Tesco none of that and they will be given a broom to help keep their rig clean. Then comes short and long haul. A Tesco driver is short. Pretty defined working hours and no sleeping in the truck. They have no problem attracting drivers and can be pretty selective.

Fresh graduates out of university. They may have problems getting their first job. That is because a company wants doers that have some actual experience. A large company may take in a quota every year. Once filled no more.

 

[Odds]

Cameron got a loit of what he wanted. Another way of reading this is rather close to what he wanted.

EU reform deal: What Cameron wanted and what he got

David Cameron claims his EU reform deal will give the UK "special status" in the 28 nation bloc - but did he get what he wanted?

www.bbc.co.uk

It takes out much of what people moaned about and leaves people who can support themselves.

The paragraph relating to regulation in the City of London is telling: no concessions from the EU in that regard. On migration there was some movement in favour of the UK, so draw your own conclusions. Cameron got more than could be expected but the EU-sceptics were pushed to an even tougher line because of Farage and his Ukippers.

 

[Pat ex]

When Cameron went to the EU summit to negotiate a deal to limit immigration and was given the cold shoulder by Sarkozy in 2015,

You need to revisit your history:
Francois Hollande was president of France in 2015. He was president from 2012 to 2017. Sarkozy had been out since 2012.

David Cameron got most of what he wanted from the summit. It was the ERG, Farage et al that claimed he had fallen short of his demands.
David Cameron's demands were all about EU workers in UK. His demands were absolutely nothing about asylum seekers.
Most of the opposition to Cameron's demands on limiting benefits to EU workers emanated from the Eastern European countries.