Some wires missing from this Ford alternator?

[robinbanks]

I've a 2013 Ford Galaxy with a 2.0 TDCi engine. For some time been having slight electrical issues; soon after shutting off the engine (but keeping radio on for example) see a "Low Battery" message on the dash. Occasionally a red battery light appears while driving (and I believe this is "smart alternator is operating in dumb mode"?)

If I check the battery with a multimeter I might find it less than 12v even after a run, and a couple of times recently I've read sub 12v with the engine running (but then when i checked again after 5 minutes drive it was reading 13.5v)

Other odd symptoms, the power steering jerking and being difficult to turn the wheel (kicking back against the turning effort) - I think this is something to do with low battery voltage as it appears to be an electric PS pump, and one time when it was doing it at night the headlights were flickering in line with the steering jerking

Also, a strange whirring/purring/soft whining sound that changes in line with engine revs - if the car had had a mechanical PS pump I'd have said the fluid was low, but it's not quite a sharp a sound as that, it's a bit softer and is present all the time, even when the steering isn't being used. Fluid level in the ps bottle is ok

There's hot/burning kind of smell, not as sharp/acrid as a cooking clutch, in the general engine bay area

At the moment I'm thinking to swap the alternator and see if anything changes, but the thing I was curious about is that the multi plug going to the alternator only seems to have one wire, and I thought Ford smart systems had 3?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Sounds like an alternator fault but difficult to prove on here.

Should be a bolt on wire and a multi plug .

From experience, if you change it, don't use a cheap aftermarket 1. Genuine ford or good quality only

 

[robinbanks]

I can see the bolt on wire and a plug that's big enough to be a multi plug but that wire visible in the photo is the only wire coming out of the plug.. I thought there were 3 and two of them were some PWM control signals for alternator output..

It seems an easy enough op to swap once access is gained that it's worth trying a reman alternator, I think?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Don't don't don't use a cheap alternator.

They never work on fords

 

[Jurassicspark]

At the moment I'm thinking to swap the alternator and see if anything changes, but the thing I was curious about is that the multi plug going to the alternator only seems to have one wire, and I thought Ford smart systems had 3?

Has the alternator ever been replaced before? I can recall from the top of my head (yes i seem to remember unwanted things) that you had some faults before linked with charging.

 

[robinbanks]

Don't don't don't use a cheap alternator.

They never work on fords

Looking at ebay item 173952553996 from a well rated seller (rotating solutions shop) that only seems to reman alternators - it was described as "genuine valeo alternator reconditioned using genuine parts, 12 month warranty". What do you think?

If it doesn't work out I guess I have the option of returning it and giving ECP 170 quid for an exchange Lucas one..

 

[robinbanks]

Has the alternator ever been replaced before? I can recall from the top of my head (yes i seem to remember unwanted things) that you had some faults before linked with charging.

What a great memeory - probably this thread https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/...attery-voltage-current-draw-over-time.611028/

Didn't replace the alternator then, only the battery. The problems of the battery going flat seemed to mostly go away when the car settings for the alarm were changed from "full guard" to "reduced" so at the time I put it down to excess parasitic drain.. Now that I've got more odd symptoms I'm returning to looking at the charging system

 

[flameport]

I've read sub 12v with the engine running (but then when i checked again after 5 minutes drive it was reading 13.5v)

Should be 14+ with the engine running.

it was described as "genuine valeo alternator reconditioned using genuine parts, 12 month warranty".

Like most things on ebay, it's a piece of junk. Anyone can describe anything in any way they want with zero consequences.

Considering that the alternator will affect every electrical system in the vehicle and a busted or faulty one has the potential to destroy electronics, why would anyone bother with a dodgy refurbished affair just to save £50?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Looking at ebay item 173952553996 from a well rated seller (rotating solutions shop) that only seems to reman alternators - it was described as "genuine valeo alternator reconditioned using genuine parts, 12 month warranty". What do you think?

Wouldn't even fit it. My best advice from experience is fit a ford unit. Or high quality aftermarket, Bosch, valeo etc.

Had to refit too many cheap ones, including a decent mid range unit that just started smoking as soon as the car started.

Fit what you want though

If it doesn't work out I guess I have the option of returning it and giving ECP 170 quid for an exchange Lucas one..

Try other places too. Lucas is just a brand name now, it's not the quality it was

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

There's hot/burning kind of smell, not as sharp/acrid as a cooking clutch, in the general engine bay area

Could be shorted turns on the alternator - Try using a bit of flexible pipe, to take a sniff closer to the alternator, after a run.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Like most things on ebay, it's a piece of junk.

What nonsense.

Will you please stop making these blanket statements about things?

 

[Jurassicspark]

Didn't replace the alternator then, only the battery. The problems of the battery going flat seemed to mostly go away when the car settings for the alarm were changed from "full guard" to "reduced" so at the time I put it down to excess parasitic drain.. Now that I've got more odd symptoms I'm returning to looking at the charging system

Right. Have you replaced the alternator yet?

I had similar issues to yours but on a Zafira. The alternator had 4 wires, two of them were the charging for the battery and the other 2 (control wires) came from the ECM. I checked the control wires with my scope and i saw the computer was commanding the alternator so i replaced the alternator and the problem went away.

You only got one wire though. I'm thinking it could be LIN from the ECM. Have you carried out voltage drop tests from the alternator to the battery?

 

[robinbanks]

To answer the original question, it seems this particular alternator/charging system on this TDCi engine genuinely should only have the large wire that goes to the battery and the small wire that seems to carry some kind of PWM AC signal, according to the scope I bought to check it

I've replaced the alternator and since got a sensible 14+ volts at the battery, the whirring/purring sound has also disappeared..

I've a few tips for the process, may it help future readers:

Disconnect batttery positive, under the flap in the top right of the engine bay. I then slid a milk bottle top under the clamp/on top of the battery post and just rested it back on. I know my radio code (written on the sun visor) but free calculators exist on the internet to derive the code from the serial number which is accessible by pushing buttons on the radio display

Remove the headlight; it's only 2 screws and improves access

Unplug the small plastic pipes from the coolant header tank and tuck them out of the way- past experience has taught me these things can go brittle and become easy to break

Access is improved considerably by removing the fuel filter. Ford, in their infinite wisdom, mounted it to the block with 2 bolts and 2 stud+nut setups.
Unfortunately, combined with the fact that one of the mounting arms ends up tucked behind the intake assembly, this means that you can't remove the filter mount so easily because the studs stop you sliding it sideways to get it out from behind the intake
Fortunately, the studs are removable if you have the tiny torx socket head they have. In my case I found a 4mm hex socket did fit and thankfully they weren't corroded in. I didn't put them back; I replaced them with bolts for easier removal next time

Use of a magnet on a stick to retrieve the bolts/studs holding the fuel filter mount is handy


The fuel pipes connect to the fuel filter via a complicated push button retainer clip. The clip looks like a small white triangle surrounded by a larger white plastic C shape.
Hook a small screwdriver under the triangle one and pull it out, away from the pipe. It doesn't spring back. Carefully press the C shaped latch towards the pipe using two fingers, then slide the pipe off

The fuel return pipe has a green pipe end with a red button on the adjacent connector. When disconnecting the supply and return from the injector pump, disconnect the return first and don't dilly dally before moving onto the supply pipe. Reason for this is when disconnecting the return pipe last it seemingly does a good job of siphoning the fuel out of the injector pump making it harder to bleed.
With both pipes disconnected bend them gently up out of the way and use some wire etc to make a loose hook, hooked onto the wipers to hold them out of the way and not have fuel dripping out of them

Apparently some belt tensioners have a hole drilled that you can put a peg into and when you flex the tensioner clockwise with a 15mm spanner on the central bolt you can use a peg in the hole to lock the tensioner in loose position. Mine didn't seem to have this but there was an indicator of how tense everything is with 3 lines/1 line and I was able to wedge a 10mm wide bit of steel into this indicator to hold the tensioner loose

The alternator in mine had 4 mounting points

The two on the belt side are really long bolts with a 16mm head
The two on the other side were a cone shaped bolt in an expanding collar (top) and a thick collar held against the engine block with a metal P shaped finger (bottom). Use of a mirror on a stick and maybe a head torch will help considerably in finding the Allen bolt holding the finger

I found I could just loosen the top bolt a little, and loosen the #4 Allen bolt holding the finger, remove completely the long bolts on the belt side, and then the alternator would wiggle and slide sideways towards the belt side, turn 45 degrees then lift out

When refitting the replacement alternator I noticed the fairly thick outer sheath on the small wire had chafed the insulation on the wire so i squeezed a bit of silicone down the sheath to stop it being able to carry on chafing, and i also cable tied the sheath to the alternator to limit vibrations on the chafed section

When fitting the v belt, it's easiest to loop it onto the tensioner pulley last because it's smooth and doesn't have a lip

For reconnecting the fuel filter, connect the supply pipe to the filter and use something to suck on it to bring fuel through to that point then promptly connect the supply pipe to the pump, and then connect the return pipe last.
This should mean you can get away with no/minimal bleeding; start the engine and hold it at 2000 rpm until it's finished coughing and juddering. If you do need to bleed, apply vacuum to the return pipe and attempt to start the engine

For sucking/vac I found it possible to just use the 200ml syringe, with a bit of rubber hose on that I use for bleeding brakes, used an 8mm spanner wedged in the extended syringe to keep it slid out, creating a vacuum

 

[Mottie]

I've replaced the alternator and since got a sensible 14+ volts at the battery, the whirring/purring sound has also disappeared..

Did you use a quality one or a cheaper one?