Greywater waste pipe into new rainwater hopper downpipe

[granta2025]

To me, the documentation from the governing bodies clearly define what waste water is, regardless of what a resource @ BC may think they know, that's the point of the documentation, so there is no ambiguity.

Unless there are specific bylaws in place then those documents are what the LA would need to follow, unless they have been superseded.

If you're not happy and don't want this, please don't be shy in pressing your point (without being terse or obnoxious of course) citing the documentation/regs, otherwise the developer could railroad over it if it is a grey area and the inspector is a private (& paid for by them) resource. If outcome still not agreeable then there should still be recourse back to the LABC.

Thanks for the support. I will definitely be making my points to them politely and firmly, backed by the regulations.

What I don't understand is the relationship between the council and private inspector service. I only heard about the private building control when the council responded to my query. Is it a replacement service that can't be overridden by the council's powers? Do you know if there is a statutory dispute resolution process if a resident doesn't agree with a building control ruling?

When the council surveyor contacted me, he said the council didn't have power to intervene (but he was the same person that said waste water might be allowable in a hopper) so I assumed that the private BC person has the final say and that can't be overturned. But does feel slightly dodgy given it's a private service paid for by the developer.

 

[Madrab]

The private inspection firms are authorised by the LA to sign off and certify building certs etc. Basically it seems to be a way of local government placing the BC approval process into private hands, that then allows then to streamline/slim down their own BC depts, reducing LA spending. Only trouble, IMO, is that leaves it open to 'influence' being brought to bear by the companies that employ them.

I can't believe that these inspectors/companies would be able to act with impunity without there being a process to appeal/complain. BC legislation compliance sits squarely with the LA as far as I know. I think you need to do more research and get your ducks in a row before it gets too far as that invariably makes life more difficult.

This may be more for a process for appeals for someone's own plans being rejected rather than appeals against other works but it may be a good place to start, - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a795ad940f0b642860d7615/1877971.pdf
Either that or look at the ombudsman

 

[granta2025]

The private inspection firms are authorised by the LA to sign off and certify building certs etc. Basically it seems to be a way of local government placing the BC approval process into private hands, that then allows then to streamline/slim down their own BC depts, reducing LA spending. Only trouble, IMO, is that leaves it open to 'influence' being brought to bear by the companies that employ them.

I can't believe that these inspectors/companies would be able to act with impunity without there being a process to appeal/complain. BC legislation compliance sits squarely with the LA as far as I know. I think you need to do more research and get your ducks in a row before it gets too far as that invariably makes life more difficult.

This may be more for a process for appeals for someone's own plans being rejected rather than appeals against other works but it may be a good place to start, - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a795ad940f0b642860d7615/1877971.pdf
Either that or look at the ombudsman

Thanks again for all the helpful links. I'm still awaiting a response from the Council as to whether the site inspection has happened and the outcome.

In the meantime, I've been looking through the appeals process etc. but haven't found any resources for how someone complains/appeals against a building control decision.

With regards to the Building Regulations (Part H), I have tried to read relevant parts and come across this statement on P.6

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80cf9ded915d74e33fc8ae/BR_PDF_AD_H_2015.pdf

"Limitations: Requirement H1 does not apply to the diversion of water which has been used for personal washing or the washing of clothes, linen, or other articles to collection systems for re-use." It defines foul water as waste water from toilets and kitchens.

So is this why I was initially told that the hoper arrangement might be allowable? Also, the H1 guidance refers to sanitary pipework not connecting to a hopper (the only time it is mentioned) and here, sanitary pipework is defined as toilets. So it seems sanitary pipework can't connect to a hopper but other branch pipework can

It seems my only line of defence is about the open gutter carrying wastewater. As a result, I have been reading H3 (Rainwater) of the regulations but the technical details is beyond my comprehension. Where can I find something about wastewater not being allowable in an open gutter, and also about the flow volume (rainwater +wastewater) being too high in the current configuration?

 

[endecotp]

"Limitations: Requirement H1 does not apply to the diversion of water which has been used for personal washing or the washing of clothes, linen, or other articles to collection systems for re-use."

Is there a “collection system” for grey-water re-use involved here? I don’t think so. That doesn’t apply.

Did you actually speak to a human who told you the rules only applied to toilet water? It sounds like the sort of nonsense you could expect from a chatbot.

 

[granta2025]

Is there a “collection system” for grey-water re-use involved here? I don’t think so. That doesn’t apply.

Did you actually speak to a human who told you the rules only applied to toilet water? It sounds like the sort of nonsense you could expect from a chatbot.

No there's not a collection system. I took that interpretation myself (obviously I'm no expert hence the questions!) from the document because in the first column, it lists all the things that count as waste water (toilets and kitchen washing) but laundry and bathroom aren't mentioned.

The human I spoke to last week told me it applied to toilets and kitchens but not bathroom so it doesn't match what it says in the guidance.

I'm trying any alternative ways to counter this unhappy situation.

 

[Madrab]

No, waste water that has been diverted to a collection system would be say a water barrel or storage tank and that water can then be recycled say to fill toilets etc. Water that ultimately heads down the drain, however it gets there, should be covered by Doc H.

As I mentioned, I’m not sure that person you talked to has their facts straight, waste water from sinks, basins, showers, baths, dishwashers, washing machines etc are all classed as Cat3 as far as the water regs are concerned, so I don’t think the LABC could change that just to suit themselves. I would use that point, amongst others in any discussion, it does need to stopped be fore any approval is granted though, I would suggest. Maybe get in touch with the approval company too

 

[granta2025]

I've spoken to my contact at the council again but he has advised that as a private BC company is being used, the council will only intervene if I a make a complaint after the completion certificate is issued (assuming that the issues haven't been rectified). They said it's not usual for a private building control company to communicate directly with me or provide updates. But he has followed up with them and it seems all I can do is wait to see if it resolves.

 

[Madrab]

I've spoken to my contact at the council again but he has advised that as a private BC company is being used, the council will only intervene if I a make a complaint after the completion certificate is issued (assuming that the issues haven't been rectified). They said it's not usual for a private building control company to communicate directly with me or provide updates. But he has followed up with them and it seems all I can do is wait to see if it resolves.

That’s a mare, don’t see how that’s allowed, how is anyone supposed to complain or stop anything before it happens. That’s means the LABC wash their hands of it? That leaves the whole process open to serious abuse, happens all too often these days. Surely that’s all supposed to happen at the planning stages before the work is actually approved and the starts! The real trouble starts when somethings already been done and the it’s a huge expensive process to then get it undone.

Was then any plans or anything put if before the work started?

 

[granta2025]

That’s a mare, don’t see how that’s allowed, how is anyone supposed to complain or stop anything before it happens. That’s means the LABC wash their hands of it? That leaves the whole process open to serious abuse, happens all too often these days. Surely that’s all supposed to happen at the planning stages before the work is actually approved and the starts! The real trouble starts when somethings already been done and the it’s a huge expensive process to then get it undone.

Was then any plans or anything put if before the work started?

I checked the council's building control database and an application was put in but no other details. The drawings in the planning application also don't contain any information about drainage plans. I'm new to all of this so I don't know what the minimum expectation is for prior agreement?

 

[endecotp]

I checked the council's building control database and an application was put in but no other details. The drawings in the planning application also don't contain any information about drainage plans. I'm new to all of this so I don't know what the minimum expectation is for prior agreement?

It’s normal that the drawings are publicly available for planning permission but not for building regs.

 

[Madrab]

Certainly up here If planning permission is required then usually anyone of “neighbouring interest” would be notified if letter by the LA, that ensures that any impacts may be considered prior to permission being given. I’m not sure if that approach is taken or consistent down south though.

 

[granta2025]

we were given notice about the planning application but I don't think there's an obligation to consult on building regs in England. The planning decision notice says that building regs must be followed, but as I'm learning, there seems to be ambiguity in how this is monitored and enforced

 

[Madrab]

Interesting reading at the planning portal, under the regs sections for drainage etc

Is building regulations approval needed for an extension? - Extensions - Planning Portal

Find out about the building regulations for building an extension

www.planningportal.co.uk

 

[granta2025]

I've had another call with the council's BC person. He is still chasing the private BC contact but has had no response in the last 3 weeks.

He promised to keep chasing but has basically outlined what the likely pathways are now:

1) The private BC raises the contraventions with the contractors, they get time to put it right, and the council monitor enforcements

or

2) Private BC issues completion certificate, council gets notified, they notify me, I then raise complaint and council uses statutory powers to raise complaint and investigate the private BC, eventually (hopefully) leading to resolution of the actual issue. Likely also that environmental health would get involved.
He said I could also raise it with the building health and safety regulator to investigate.

So there are processes, but it will take time and hassle. It's partially reassuring but I'll believe it when I see it. In the meantime, I am worrying about why the private BC is not getting in contact and whether the contractors are trying to find ways out!