What vehicle(s) do you drive on a regular basis?

[ReganAndCarter]

You can do other things while it charges - like eat or sleep...

Or as I suggested -

drinking sh*t coffee.

Comprehension really isn't your thing, is it?

Then again, I don't have to come up with things to while away the wasted hours like you are forced to. Like contemplating why the hell anyone would make their lives so difficult? Why anyone would buy an EV?

 

[Avocet]

would you like a nice picture of a proper useful practical vehicle - something that is some use, than some stupidly priced over powered EV

Been written off twice
bought it as a write off in 2009 for 2k (3 months old 12k n the clock, motor factors van they are all driven by mad people) then it got wrote off again in 2018 when a lorry crashed into the back of it, bought it back for 400 ish
whats your EV cost ?
View attachment 391242


and yes drive at 45 - 50mph only have it gear when needed and mpg is good - on a long run do 70 to the gallon

it is possible to drive at these speeds, and to accelerate gently to them

Eeeeewwww... Well, whatever chokes your chicken! I'm very familiar with those, we use to convert the passenger carrying version for wheelchair access. Is it the 1.6 HDI? Which power output?

I absolutely don't dispute that it's practical and useful to you. You only do 3,500 miles a year and hopefully, it'll manage to drag its sorry, end-of-life carcass over that distance at that blistering 45-50 MPH pace, for a little longer. However, it would be about as practical and useful as an ashtray on a motorbike to me, because I do big miles as part of my job and sometimes need to carry other people in it - sometimes in cities with low emissions zones. I need something that will take me long distances quickly and comfortably and with as little environmental damage and at as little cost as possible. But yeah, I'm perfectly happy to accept that you find it practical and useful. As I've said, I only challenge BS on here, and even skewing the goalposts as much as you possibly can, by picking country with just about the dirtiest electricity in the world and then hypermiling it at impractically low speed for all your worth, it's still dirtier than mine, even driven at much higher speeds!

But hey! (And this will make you laugh I'm sure!) as of yesterday I'm the proud owner of an even older, even shiiitttier, even dirtier velociped. Feast your eyes on this bad boy!

Long story, but it's here to live out the remainder of its days (which might be quite short as its MOT is up at the end of October), with me. I'm sure it will be "practical and useful" in some way or another, I just won't try to claim its better for the environment...

 

[Avocet]

Your patience, in bothering to explain the fallacy, is much greater than mine.

One of these days, you might realise it's not a fallacy. This is getting positively Orwellian now!

 

[Avocet]

Yes, but my patience, bit like an EV's battery charge while atempting a round trip from Bristol to London, just ran out.

Oh good! Does that mean you're going to put me on ignore and stop spreading BS?

 

[Avocet]

Would I be right in thinking that with those figures, they must have bigger batteries, if so then when you are using it on petrol you will be lugging about all the extra weight.

Yes. Personally, I don't like hybrids - and that's a big part of the reason. You're always carrying one powertrain around with you that is being under-utilised. The ones with the biggest batteries tend to be the plug-in hybrids. On the plus side, you can use them like an EV for short distances. If you can get your regular commute out of the electric-only range and can be bothered plugging it in at night, they can work very well, but on a long run, once the battery is depleted, they tend to get pretty thirsty - for exactly the reason you mention.

 

[Avocet]

Do you ever read other's posts and practice comprehension before posting?



Tozzer!

Yes, I read yours! (Not that it was particularly illuminating, but I've only myself to blame - I really should know that by now).

 

[Avocet]

Or as I suggested -



Comprehension really isn't your thing, is it?

Then again, I don't have to come up with things to while away the wasted hours like you are forced to. Like contemplating why the hell anyone would make their lives so difficult? Why anyone would buy an EV?

Well... ONE of us has experience of doing long runs in both ICEs and EVs, the other doesn't...

But please... feel free to "muppetsplain" to me what I have to do with all these "wasted" hours. Right now, for example, I'm trading blows with a purveyor of anti-EV BS on an internet forum while my EV is charging...

 

[robinbanks]

If I was given one I would like it too - and if the government gave me one to save the world then I might then believe in the climate apocalypse

Aren't government incentives to boost uptake of EVs "the government giving you one"?

Or do you mean that it should be supplied to you entirely at the taxpayer's cost?

And your opinion is for sale?

"We've established what you are, and now we're merely haggling over the price"?

Like contemplating why the hell anyone would make their lives so difficult? Why anyone would buy an EV?

I feel like this comment says more about the root cause of your problem than any other you've made

"There is none so blind as he who will not see"

 

[Mottie]

Personal opinion here but we're picking up our first ever hybrid today. We discounted the mild hybrid as was lacking power and mpg was around 4-5 mpg below the self charging hybrid. We also discounted the plug-in hybrid despite it being a claimed 200 odd mpg better than the hybrid (only if you did less than 30 miles between charges!) as the extra cost of the vehicle plus the cost of a home charger installation wouldn’t be worth it for us and the mpg when not running in electric mode was worse than the HEV due to lugging around the larger battery. Who's to say that the price of electric charging won't sky rocket once enough people have been converted, like we were persuaded to 'convert' to cheap diesel engined vehicles many years ago? Something has got to replace the governments tax take that will be lost on petrol and diesel sales. There was also the possibility that after the initial novelty was over, we'd not bother plugging it in every night and of course, there is no space for a spare wheel in the plug in as the battery takes up that space. Have we made the wrong decision? Who knows, but we thought we'd give it a try. Only time will tell if it’s best for us.

 

[Avocet]

Personal opinion here but we're picking up our first ever hybrid today. We discounted the mild hybrid as was lacking power and mpg was around 4-5 mpg below the self charging hybrid. We also discounted the plug-in hybrid despite it being a claimed 200 odd mpg better than the hybrid (only if you did less than 30 miles between charges!) as the extra cost of the vehicle plus the cost of a home charger installation wouldn’t be worth it for us and the mpg when not running in electric mode was worse than the HEV due to lugging around the larger battery. Who's to say that the price of electric charging won't sky rocket once enough people have been converted, like we were persuaded to 'convert' to cheap diesel engined vehicles many years ago? Something has got to replace the governments tax take that will be lost on petrol and diesel sales. There was also the possibility that after the initial novelty was over, we'd not bother plugging it in every night and of course, there is no space for a spare wheel in the plug in as the battery takes up that space. Have we made the wrong decision? Who knows, but we thought we'd give it a try. Only time will tell if it’s best for us.

Nobody knows for certain what the future holds. The push to switch from petrol to diesel, was driven by concern over CO2 emissions. Diesels are better on CO2 than petrol. It was the best option available at the time. The duty on diesel is the same as the duty on petrol. The increased cost is simple "supply-and-demand". The thing is, nobody knows what the future holds for petrol and diesel prices either. The long term trend will of course, be upwards as the stuff becomes more scarce. It will, of course, fluctuate. I'm guessing that now Ukraine has its own missiles capable of hitting Russian refineries and pipelines, we might see a bit of a spike in prices over winter, but who knows?

As for taxing domestic electricity to make up lost revenue, I can't see that being feasible. The government has no way of knowing what electricity goes into my car and what goes into my shower or oven. Besides, too many people can make their own electricity too easily. That's why there's talk of road pricing. Plus, of course, there's hydrogen. I hear lots of ICE fans saying they're waiting for hydrogen. If electricity gets to expensive, it will only make hydrogen more attractive.

Funny enough, I have a meeting with OZEV this afternoon on the transition, but this is too far into the future to be on the agenda. My money, however, will be on a combination of road pricing and pollution charging (Low Emissions Zones, etc) making up the difference. EVs are already taxed at £195 for VED, and that's only fair, I think, as they still use public roads. Fuel duty has been frozen for a long time, so I think that's probably ripe for an increase too...

The only thing I'm confident of, is that however much it costs to run an EV, any government seeking to incentivise the uptake of EVs will always ensure that the cost of running ICE will be more. Remember, even if the cost of my domestic electricity were to TRIPLE, it would still cost me about HALF as much as diesel.

 

[Brigadier]

Personal opinion here but we're picking up our first ever hybrid today. We discounted the mild hybrid as was lacking power and mpg was around 4-5 mpg below the self charging hybrid. We also discounted the plug-in hybrid despite it being a claimed 200 odd mpg better than the hybrid (only if you did less than 30 miles between charges!) as the extra cost of the vehicle plus the cost of a home charger installation wouldn’t be worth it for us and the mpg when not running in electric mode was worse than the HEV due to lugging around the larger battery. Who's to say that the price of electric charging won't sky rocket once enough people have been converted, like we were persuaded to 'convert' to cheap diesel engined vehicles many years ago? Something has got to replace the governments tax take that will be lost on petrol and diesel sales. There was also the possibility that after the initial novelty was over, we'd not bother plugging it in every night and of course, there is no space for a spare wheel in the plug in as the battery takes up that space. Have we made the wrong decision? Who knows, but we thought we'd give it a try. Only time will tell if it’s best for us.

Avocet has already given a decent response.
Here's my two penneth:


Agree on the plug-in hybrid being a farce.
It would cost near £1k for a home charger.
You'd have to remember / be bothered to use it.
You'd have to charge at non-peak rates, to gain full benefit.
One of the powertrains is always lugging the other around, which is not efficient.
A whole load of added complexity, without a whole lot of benefit.


Self-charging is less crap but, in my experience, still not great.
Fuel economy is worse than pure ICE.
One of the powertrains is always lugging the other around, which is not efficient.
A whole load of added complexity, without a whole lot of benefit.


For me, I'd always go either pure ICE, or pure EV.
And Avocet has already covered the possible "futures" wrt the government replacing ICE taxes with EV taxes.

No-one knows what the future will bring but, for my money, it will be a very long time before EV becomes as expensive as ICE is now, and it will likely always remain cheaper.


And, the whole hydrogen thing is a dead end, in my opinion: complexity, huge infrastructure investment required to both produce and distribute it, worse range and efficiency than EV, the way batteries are coming on will make charging close to hydrogen fill-up times, for the range gained..............

 

[aveatry]

As for taxing domestic electricity to make up lost revenue, I can't see that being feasible. The government has no way of knowing what electricity goes into my car and what goes into my shower or oven.

Wrong I am afraid -- the government have mandated that all newly fitted home EV chargers have to be smart capable. So they will know exactly when and how much. Not sure of the date of this - it might even be already in place. I read it on the GOV website last year.

 

[Brigadier]

Wrong I am afraid -- the government have mandated that all newly fitted home EV chargers have to be smart capable. So they will know exactly when and how much. Not sure of the date of this - it might even be already in place. I read it on the GOV website last year.

Even if what you have written is true, how will the government know what my existing EV charger is doing?

And all the meter will tell anyone is when and how much, but not "on what".

 

[aveatry]

Even if what you have written is true, how will the government know what my existing EV charger is doing?

And all the meter will tell anyone is when and how much, but not "on what".

It is true --- go and google it. Don't know about existing chargers. But is you have a smart meter in your house already that supplies your charger then that power consumption - rate - time- can tell a lot about what is being used, the smart meter can "tell"-- record when you put the oven on compared to when you put the kettle on compared to when you charge your phone as they all have their own power signatures vs time used - not difficult to work out what is being used - against the background consumption of a fridge. If you have a smart meter installed then congratulations - you have installed a spying device. -- For your convenience .

 

[Brigadier]

It is true --- go and google it. Don't know about existing chargers. But is you have a smart meter in your house already that supplies your charger then that power consumption - rate - time- can tell a lot about what is being used, the smart meter can "tell"-- record when you put the oven on compared to when you put the kettle on compared to when you charge your phone as they all have their own power signatures vs time used - not difficult to work out what is being used - against the background consumption of a fridge. If you have a smart meter installed then congratulations - you have installed a spying device. -- For your convenience .

You've just repeated back to me what I told you - with a dash of conspiracy added - but using far more words, and far more clumsily