Reform will stop the small boats within two weeks ...

[blup]

Some things about Reform/Farage are a bit worrying. At a time when we are in all but name bankrupt with spiralling debt and welfare costs - he wants to expand the welfare payment. Scrapping the two child cap on child benefits. Can't work out why - especially when it won't be a boost for most white indigenous families. Yet other types of families will win big.

He sees it as a way to pull votes from Smarmy, no more or less

 

[ReganAndCarter]

I play one of my long-time favourites from Soft Cell (Marc Almond). Marc has hearing loss due to a lifelong defect as do I and as a fellow musician I appreciate his application.

His duet with Gene Pitney was fantastic.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

See the other thread for a fuller answer. But nobody really knows. There is a deep existential unhappiness.

Because it's all doom and gloom. Politicians used to try to sell you a brighter future - some even delivered occasionally. Today it's just managing decline and promising to solve the disasters of the last lot - even though they can't or won't do it when elected. As for the young, as soon as they're in school they have guilt trips and bizarre propaganda heaped on them about trans, recycling, climate, mass immigration, gay right, etc, etc, etc. It's evil and virtually a form of child abuse. I grew up in the 70s/80 and remember being allowed just to get on with the difficult job of trying to find my way in the world. Wasn't burdened with brain-washing and all the worries of the adult world. No wonder everyone, inc. kids are depressed.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

The U.K. has no control over who leaves France.

Total defeatist bowllux!

If we stopped putting them in 4* hotels with benefits, 3 meals a day, etc, etc and put them in camps in the Outer Hebrides - how long do you think it would be before the flow of parasites dried up?

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Most are refugees,

 

[MNW67]

Assuming UK is in the international convention against torture (I don't know) Nigel hasn't said he's going to leave it. If we leave the ECHR it doesn't mean we must send anybody anywhere, we will have discretion if we believe they'll be at risk. It just means we won't have to admit all and sundry because of the outdated provisions of the ECHR.

That is all incorrect. The Reform plan specifically says that the UK will leave the international convention against torture. It is in the first paragraph in bold. Their plan is to send every asylum seeker back to their country of origin. None of them will be assessed. The whole point of leaving the convention against torture is to enable the UK to send people back to their home country to face torture.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

The gammons have fallen for him hook, line and sinker

And whose fault is that?

 

[MNW67]

The gammons have fallen for him hook, line and sinker and don't even know his plans.

That seems to be the case.

I tried to explain the plans a bit on here last week but nobody seemed to be interested.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Because it's all doom and gloom. Politicians used to try to sell you a brighter future - some even delivered occasionally. Today it's just managing decline and promising to solve the disasters of the last lot - even though they can't or won't do it when elected. As for the young, as soon as they're in school they have guilt trips and bizarre propaganda heaped on them about trans, recycling, climate, mass immigration, gay right, etc, etc, etc. It's evil and virtually a form of child abuse. I grew up in the 70s/80 and remember being allowed just to get on with the difficult job of trying to find my way in the world. Wasn't burdened with brain-washing and all the worries of the adult world. No wonder everyone, inc. kids are depressed.

Have to admit, on balance I am so pleased I grew up in a pre Internet pre smart this smart that era.

Let's face it, if we'd had things like that when younger, many (most?) of us would have been every bit as guilty as the youth of today re staring at our phones 24/7 etc.

 

[MNW67]

This is a very valid point.

In theory, it's relatively easy to physically stop the small boats at sea. Heck, we could even elect not to pick any of the boat people up, accepting whatever consequence that would mean for those on board.

If we did this, and stuck with it, it's safe to assume the small boats would stop within a relatively quick timeframe.

However, let's say the government decided to do this, whether it was or wasn't deemed legal. Let's say they decided to bash on, accepting whatever the legal consequence would be from UK and international quarters.

I suspect this is where it probably wouldn't happen, because those tasked with stopping the boats and not helping those on board would most likely, and understandably, say 'nah, not doing that.'

I like to think, if government ever proposed anything that crossed a line into unacceptability from the viewpoint of most Brits, that the masses would ensure it didn't happen. This links in with us being a democratic country.

I for one want the small boat crisis stopped. However I would never support a strategy of literally stopping the boats and pushing them back, with no regard for the safety of those on board,

This is an excellent post.

The problem is that people might vote for policies they don't understand, like they did with Trump.

 

[Odds]

Hmm. Trump said he would stop the war in 24 hours.

What I really want a politician to address, or at least mention, is the far larger problem of legal migration. The boats are a highly visible reminder of Tory and Labour broken promises and failed, half-hearted policies. Plus endless lies. But the boats are a drop in the ocean compared to the ones being waved through the back door.

you think legal migration is a bigger problem than Illegal migration and the refugees forced to flee by war?

Okay.

 

[MNW67]

I don't disagree, however it's the optics of the small boats that isn't doing government any favours and is feeding the Reform narrative. And of course the migrant hotel situation.

On Newsnight last night they were talking about immigration, the talking heads were asserting that if government can further decrease net migration to a reasonable number, this could largely take the wind out of Reform's sails.

tbh I'm not sure it would, however that was the assertion.

I believe that if we took all the adult male boat people and detained them in camps, then most voters would be happy with that and this issue would die down. I think most Brits are still fair and compassionate people.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

People will always seek to come here by illicit means, and will find other ways just as they did when the lorry security was stepped up. But Nige judges very well the mood what people will swallow.

Which is why we should accept the requirement to spend a few billion each year ensuring, as far as possible, all routes in are locked down. And I don't mean spending it on talk, discussion, red tape and things that ultimately do nothing to address the problem. I mean on tangible things like multiple sea patrols, coastal land patrols, drone patrols etc etc.

 

[MNW67]

I believe there are other reasons and forces driving mass migration. Whoever is lending us billions to try to keep afloat has the real power. Also we now have a muslim home secretary. Like putting the fox in charge of the hen house.

Isn't that mainly British pension funds and people buying premium bonds etc.

 

[Odds]

Which is why we should accept the requirement to spend a few billion each year ensuring, as far as possible, all routes in are locked down. And I don't mean spending it on talk, discussion, red tape and things that ultimately do nothing to address the problem. I mean on tangible things like multiple sea patrols, coastal land patrols, drone patrols etc etc.

you prepared to pay more in tax for those little luxuries?