Hager Pilot App on iPhone, How do I update my AFDD's firmware?

[eveares]

So my new Hager board in my new house has AFDD's and I have been getting frequent nusciance trips in the last week, due to things like my air fryer and sds drill causing series arc faults. (AFDD in question flashes Red/Yellow when button held folowing trip, which accoding to the manual is a series arc fault).

I downloaded the Hager Pilot app on my phone and created an account, but I can't seem to fiqure out how to update my AFDD's firmware with it. I held the button on my AFDD for 5 seconds until it starts flahsing a blue light to enable bluetooth, but it does not seem to show up on my iphone as a avalible bluetoth device.

I am going to contact and phone Hager tomorrow, but for now, does anyone know how to update the firmware on Hager AFDD's? The Hager Pilot iOS app does not seem to have an option for working with AFDD's as advertised in the manual!?

Much regards: Elliott.

 

[AndyPRK]

Lol

Look up DSES on YouTube.
There will be lots of complaining about them and swearing, but I think he did connect his phone to it at some point.
I think he has an Android

Most of the time he couldn’t get them to trip on an arc, so it’s interesting to hear yours are tripping.

 

[Murdochcat]

It begs the question as to why AFDDs were fitted.

It’s not a requirement in the majority of homes

 

[eveares]

It begs the question as to why AFDDs were fitted.

It’s not a requirement in the majority of homes

Because I splashed out for them in my own choice thinking they were a good idea, a bit like when RCD's were first introduced.

As for why I chose Hager, becuase I have known it as a reptuable brand of distrubution boards.

 

[AndyPRK]

How did get in with Hagar tech support ?

 

[Murdochcat]

I would recommend replacing the AFFDs with RCBOs

 

[eveares]

How did get in with Hagar tech support ?

App was down day before yesterday ironicly when I phoned support, app is now working and I have updated all 4 AFDD's of mine, although I think the AFDD that was tripping was allready up to date...or that it updated in the background without me realsising when I connected it by bluetooth.

 

[JohnW2]

Because I splashed out for them in my own choice thinking they were a good idea ....

You may perhaps now wish to re-visit that 'thinking' - replacing them with RCBOs wopul;d now not cost all that much!

.... a bit like when RCD's were first introduced.

Although it's impossible to know what they have actually achieved, RCDs at least attempt to address issues which would benefit from being addressed. Whether the same is true of AFDDs is, in my opinion, a rather different matter - I fear they may represent an example of something (expensive) which has appeared "because it became technologically possible to produce them" (and make large profits from manufacturing, distributing and selling them) without there necessarily being any significant "need" (in domestic installations).

 

[flameport]

and I have updated all 4 AFDD's of mine,

and what new features or fixes does this include?

Answer - no one knows as Hager do not tell anyone why or what these updates are for, or even if they are required or not.

although I think the AFDD that was tripping was allready up to date

In which case nothing acheived.

..or that it updated in the background without me realsising when I connected it by bluetooth.

Highly suspect behaviour if it is doing that.

Like those internet connected smoke alarms which can update their own firmware automatically, something goes wrong with the update and then the alarm doesn't work, all without anyone knowing.

 

[JohnW2]

.... Like those internet connected smoke alarms which can update their own firmware automatically ....

Is there any sensible reason (other than a design fault resulting in the product never having been fit for purpose) why the firmware would need to be 'updated' during the 10-year (or whatever) life of the product?

... something goes wrong with the update and then the alarm doesn't work, all without anyone knowing.

Quite. It sounds like a gimmick, yet again done simply because "it became technologically possible" - but, as you say, with definite downsides to add to the probable lack of need!

 

[eveares]

and what new features or fixes does this include?

Answer - no one knows as Hager do not tell anyone why or what these updates are for, or even if they are required or not.



In which case nothing acheived.



Highly suspect behaviour if it is doing that.

Like those internet connected smoke alarms which can update their own firmware automatically, something goes wrong with the update and then the alarm doesn't work, all without anyone knowing.

I know two of the AFDD's did say update avalible on the app and started updating, whether the other two were allready up-to-date or updated in the background, i'm not 100% sure. All 4 AFDD's were purchased at the same time.

My AFDD's are:

32A Kitchen sockets
20A Downstairs sockets
20A Upstairs sockets
20A Outside/Shed

 

[plugwash]

Arc faults can be detected by looking for broadband noise, but there are other things that can create that. Some loads (brushed motors) have a degree of arcing in normal operation. Some loads generate high-frequency "noise" for other reasons (powerline communications gear seems a particular culprit).

AFDDs have heuristics to distinguish "normal" from "dangerous arc", but these heuristics are undocumented and not without problems. For example I recall one demonstration, where a vacum cleaner and a powerline communications unit were find on their own but both at the same time would cause a trip.

 

[eveares]

Is there any sensible reason (other than a design fault resulting in the product never having been fit for purpose) why the firmware would need to be 'updated' during the 10-year (or whatever) life of the product?

With AFDD's, my understanding is that if a new electrical signiture/waveform/noise pattern from a new product gets created on the mains line that gets falsley detected as an arc, it can be addressed by a firmware update rather than having to swap the entire AFDD breaker out.

As for internet connected smoke alarms, I guess to add new features like 3rd party integration, new user settings like sensitivity, etc...

 

[JohnW2]

Arc faults can be detected by looking for broadband noise, but there are other things that can create that. .... AFDDs have heuristics to distinguish "normal" from "dangerous arc", but these heuristics are undocumented and not without problems.

Indeed. Even if there were an apparent need (in domestic installations), even the technology sounds pretty iffy to me.

I may have mentioned before that a number of years ago I was asked to advise in relation to attempts to develop a device that could detect human contact with a live conductor by looking for evidence of (very low level) ECG signals. I eventually managed to convince them that the whole concept was 'fatally flawed' (essentially because of 'time-related' issues) but they had already been having all sorts of problems with various types of low-level noise which was arising in electrical installations, and which sometimes had the ability to mimic 'noise' due to all sorts of sources.

 

[JohnW2]

With AFDD's, my understanding is that if a new electrical signiture/waveform/noise pattern from a new product gets created on the mains line that gets falsley detected as an arc, it can be addressed by a firmware update rather than having to swap the entire AFDD breaker out.

Yes, that may sometimes be true of AFDDs but my comment was in response to what flameport had written about smoke alarms.

As for internet connected smoke alarms, I guess to add new features like 3rd party integration, new user settings like sensitivity, etc...

Indeed, but assuming that the product was fit-for-purpose when sold, is there really ever going to be a compelling (or even 'significant') need to 'add new features' during its fairly short lifetime?