Reform Policies

[motorbiking]

I agree. It just isn't proving possible at the moment and it is unclear what the bottle neck is.

receiver pays the costs less the transfer costs. that is why.

 

[IT Minion]

The idea of using overseas prisons at a fraction of the cost is a good one.

Not if you want to reform criminals. Housing then away from friends and family is correlated with worse reoffending stats.

 

[IT Minion]

Fracking, no one wants fracking. It's less popular than Liz Truss

 

[motorbiking]

Not if you want to reform criminals. Housing then away from friends and family is correlated with worse reoffending stats.

If you look at the details of their policy - they are only considering a certain category of long term prisoners. Additionally f2f visitation is very low among these offenders.

If people can go to Turkey to get their teeth n boobs done, then surely this is something worth looking at.

When the first IT projects were outsourced everyone said it wouldn't work. Now UK programmers hardly get a look in.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Not if you want to reform criminals. Housing then away from friends and family is correlated with worse reoffending stats.

I don't care in the slightest what they do or don't do just as long as they're not in the UK.

If the government of their country of origin doesn't care about the welfare of their people by releasing them or whatever then that is not our concern.

But if you're talking about shipping out UK-based prisoners then we do have a long-term interest. But sadly our prisons are doing next to nothing to rehabilitate anyway, so any outsourced prisons would need to be really terrible to be worse.

 

[IT Minion]

But if you're talking about shipping out UK-based prisoners then we do have a long-term interest. But sadly our prisons are doing next to nothing to rehabilitate anyway, so any outsourced prisons would need to be really terrible to be worse.

From memory they are indeed much worse for private prisons. They've got a negative incentive to reform prisoners and they're the lowest bidder so cut where they can.

 

[motorbiking]

I don't care in the slightest what they do or don't do just as long as they're not in the UK.

If the government of their country of origin doesn't care about the welfare of their people by releasing them or whatever then that is not our concern.

But if you're talking about shipping out UK-based prisoners then we do have a long-term interest. But sadly our prisons are doing next to nothing to rehabilitate anyway, so any outsourced prisons would need to be really terrible to be worse.

slight cross conversation here. There are two policies being discussed.

Deport Foreign Criminals back home to free up space
Off-Shore Criminals of certain categories who are serving long sentences to reduce cost

 

[IT Minion]

If you look at the details of their policy - they are only considering a certain category of long term prisoners. Additionally f2f visitation is very low among these offenders.

Do you have a link to hand? I've found them quoting 10,000 which is 1 in 8

 

[motorbiking]

Do you have a link to hand? I've found them quoting 10,000 which is 1 in 8

Post in thread 'Reform Policies'

Tuesday at 2:45 PM

Everything comes down to money with you.

It has to be a significant consideration. The bigger the burden of the state on the tax payer, the more jobs go overseas and the poorer we get as a nation. It's almost that simple.

12,400 New Prison Places on MoD Land in Under 18 Months. We will end the prison place shortage. During the covid crisis, NHS Nightingale hospitals were built in weeks with help from the British Armed Forces. We would build 5 new Nightingale Prisons with the assistance of the Army. These would be low cost, high security, pre-fabricated modular structures...

• motorbiking

Post in thread 'Reform Policies'

Monday at 7:51 PM

All their policy says is that they will build 30,000 new prison places.

Which groups do you think they will let out.

or you could read it:

Britain Is Lawless | Reform UK

Reform UK is Britain's fastest growing political party. Join us to fix broken Britain with common sense policies on immigration, the economy, the NHS and more.

www.reformparty.uk

rather than make it up.

• motorbiking

• 

 

[IT Minion]

Post in thread 'Reform Policies'

Tuesday at 2:45 PM

Everything comes down to money with you.

It has to be a significant consideration. The bigger the burden of the state on the tax payer, the more jobs go overseas and the poorer we get as a nation. It's almost that simple.

12,400 New Prison Places on MoD Land in Under 18 Months. We will end the prison place shortage. During the covid crisis, NHS Nightingale hospitals were built in weeks with help from the British Armed Forces. We would build 5 new Nightingale Prisons with the assistance of the Army. These would be low cost, high security, pre-fabricated modular structures...

• motorbiking

That doesn't reference the overseas prisoners category though, unless I'm still missing it. Are we talking people in remand for five years or more? 10, 20?

But your reference to the army doing the work: generally they're not allowed to do that stuff by law iirc. National emergencies are an exception but this doesn't really count.

Also the overseas deals are unlikely to be 'agile', the only other examples have been fixed cost multi year contracts that need full utilisation to meet cost projections.

 

[motorbiking]

That doesn't reference the overseas prisoners category though, unless I'm still missing it. Are we talking people in remand for five years or more? 10, 20?

But your reference to the army doing the work: generally they're not allowed to do that stuff by law iirc. National emergencies are an exception but this doesn't really count.

Also the overseas deals are unlikely to be 'agile', the only other examples have been fixed cost multi year contracts that need full utilisation to meet cost requirements.

Its light on detail but this is what they are saying :

10,000 + Additional “Dynamic Prison” Places Overseas. Serious offenders will serve their time overseas. We will acquire flexible, low cost prison capacity through rented prison cells in third party countries. We would consider multiple partners including El Salvador.

 

[IT Minion]

Its light on detail but this is what they are saying :

10k is roughly the same number as the number of people sentenced for 10 years or more, (including IPP which is a stain on British justice).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://prisonreformtrust.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Long-term-prisoners_the-facts_2021.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi03penj_WSAxVOQUEAHYYwOl4QFnoECGgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3I-2HprfX6CxPmc7Pl-2sf

My guess is that's who they're targeting.

 

[noseall]

There will be no UK prisoners shipped abroad. It's pie-in-the-sky nonsense, designed to provoke the gormless into breathing out.

 

[motorbiking]

10k is roughly the same number as the number of people sentenced for 10 years or more, (including IPP which is a stain on British justice).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://prisonreformtrust.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Long-term-prisoners_the-facts_2021.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi03penj_WSAxVOQUEAHYYwOl4QFnoECGgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3I-2HprfX6CxPmc7Pl-2sf

My guess is that's who they're targeting.

I think it has potential.

 

[MNW67]

There will be no UK prisoners shipped abroad. It's pie-in-the-sky nonsense, designed to provoke the gormless into breathing out.

It will be dropped from the manifesto along with leaving the Convention on Torture etc.