New High tech cameras to enforce 20mph roads

[motorbiking]

Speed cameras with no flash or road markings coming to London

Cameras that can detect speeding cars across five lanes will be trialled to help reduce road deaths.

www.bbc.co.uk

3/4 of drivers don't comply with the limit

Evan Davis: Why so many people break 20mph speed limits

After receiving a speeding ticket, Evan Davis explores why so many people have broken 20mph limits across the country.

www.bbc.co.uk

These days I avoid driving in London, but there are huge lengths of arterial roads with 20mph limits on. Now even more fines are coming as the new cameras have longer range, no road markings and don't flash.

You might be fooled in to believing TFL's 20 limits have massively reduced the number of people killed or seriously injured. Ignoring the frequent claims that this is so and looking at the data, you will see it hasn't done much of anything to make a difference.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/casualties-in-greater-london-2024.pdf

 

[noseall]

Deaths and serious injuries are down. Good news.

 

[Mottie]

Deaths and serious injuries are down. Good news.

Ironic that a record breaking racing driver wearing a protective helmet has been in a coma for the last 13 years after a skiing accident. Cars are necessary for a lot of people. Skiing isn't necessary for anyone. Do you think it’s time to ban skiing now to get those deaths and serious injuries down?

 

[Highway Man]

Ironic that a record breaking racing driver wearing a protective helmet has been in a coma for the last 13 years after a skiing accident. Cars are necessary for a lot of people. Skiing isn't necessary for anyone. Do you think it’s time to ban skiing now to get those deaths and serious injuries down?

Possibly put speed cameras on the slopes and 20mph limits would help.

 

[Mottie]

Possibly put speed cameras on the slopes and 20mph limits would help.

Maybe only allow it on the nursery slopes.

 

[IT Minion]

Ironic that a record breaking racing driver wearing a protective helmet has been in a coma for the last 13 years after a skiing accident. Cars are necessary for a lot of people. Skiing isn't necessary for anyone. Do you think it’s time to ban skiing now to get those deaths and serious injuries down?

You are saying that we should focus on reducing the danger of optional sporting activities in other countries over reducing the danger of things everyone in the UK has to take part in such as crossing the road or travelling to work?

Also Schumacher is paralyzed and has suffered brain damage but isn't still in the coma. Seriously weird comparison, he didn't have his accident at the Leeds snow dome.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

The debate as to whether it's a good thing or not will continue, however I think we'll gradually see 20 zones enforced in ever wider areas. In addition, as the tech gradually allows over the years (self driving vehicles), it will be enforced. Not by fines, but technically through the vehicle. i.e. you won't be able to increase speed beyond 20 (or 30, 40, 50, 60 etc) unless in an emergency situation e.g. override, the details of which will be logged.

I'll say something that's possibly contentious. 20 zones don't overly bother me per se. No speed limit bothers me per se. What bothers me is if you dare to drive at 20-25 in a 20 zone, you're almost guaranteed to have a tail of increasingly irate drivers behind you. The same can be true at other speeds as we've discussed before.

Only yesterday I was driving in a built up area, 30 zone. I was doing 33. White van appeared from side street and sat on my tail. I reckon they were maybe 6ish feet from me.

So yeah, in a way I'd welcome the fact if we literally couldn't speed (or tailgate) through tech, however as long as we have free will in these scenarios, the challenges will continue.

 

[Mottie]

You are saying that we should focus on reducing the danger of optional sporting activities in other countries over reducing the danger of things everyone in the UK has to take part in such as crossing the road or travelling to work?

Also Schumacher is paralyzed and has suffered brain damage but isn't still in the coma. Seriously weird comparison, he didn't have his accident at the Leeds snow dome.

Reducing death and injuries anywhere would be a good move, wouldn’t you agree or are death and injuries to Brits abroad not a concern for you?

 

[IT Minion]

Reducing death and injuries anywhere would be a good move, wouldn’t you agree or are death and injuries to Brits abroad not a concern for you?

If an adult chooses to go skiing and dies that's sad, if a child gets killed crossing the road on the way to school then that's worse.

I try to focus on the more serious issue as a rule of thumb.

 

[Highway Man]

Do skis have brakes on them? Surely you cant just go flying down a mountain without any form of stopping and gathering speed hoping to stop at the bottom.

 

[Mottie]

If an adult chooses to go skiing and dies that's sad, if a child gets killed crossing the road on the way to school then that's worse.

I try to focus on the more serious issue as a rule of thumb.

My post was to the skiing builder who said "Deaths and serious injuries are down. Good news". My question to him was whether it would also be "good news" to do something to reduce death and serious injury while skiing. Children suffer serious injury and death while skiing you know. Is a child being injured crossing the road more important than one being injured while skiing, especially when there is no need to ski?

 

[IT Minion]

My post was to the skiing builder who said "Deaths and serious injuries are down. Good news". My question to him was whether it would also be "good news" to do something to reduce death and serious injury while skiing. Children suffer serious injury and death while skiing you know. Is a child being injured crossing the road more important than one being injured while skiing, especially when there is no need to ski?

So your response to traffic deaths being down in london during 2024 is to use an example of a German who injured himself skiing off pise in France during in 2013.

Its not helpful to your argument but since then the law has been updated in a lot of countries to require helmets for children by law when skiing and adult use of helmets is now routine when it used to be sneered at, and injuries are down by roughly 50%.

So since we've made such strides on skiing can we get back to the 20mph limits?

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

The speed limit in towns in lots of the USA is 25mph. This seems like a sensible compromise. My cruise control won't even switch on below 25, that's the minimum.

As ever, people are attempting to divide debate into those who want to drive at 90 and those who want to walk everywhere. Somewhere in the middle there's a sensible compromise. But sadly compromise doesn't seem to be a thing any more.

The argument that slower is safer therefore everyone must drive slower is nonsense. If you continue that argument to its limit then cars must all be banned, along with most activities including getting out of bed in a morning.

It's definitely got absolutely nothing to do with skiing, internet debate is a very weird world!

 

[Brigadier]

As always, the sensible majority get caught up by the actions of the reckless minority.

All it will do is "criminalise" a lot of people, and do nothing for the no-fegs-given 60-in-a-20 brigade.

(Cue Nosey's "speeding is optional" response, which i don't literally disagree with. But I do not agree that inappropriate, disproportionate and /or arbitrary numbers on a sign make anything safer in themselves).


In reality though, 20 zones are an imperfect solution to a situation.
Another imperfect solution being banning vehicles from them altogether.

 

[noseall]

Do you think it’s time to ban skiing now to get those deaths and serious injuries down?

I think they should always strive to make it safer, yes. Those that wish to pursue off-piste skiing, and those that chose to walk in the middle of a busy road, must understand it comes with consequences.

Strange analogy though Mottie.